4 ms·

It catches on the shelf of the pin chamber. Every time you set a pin, the plug actually rotates ever so slightly, misaligning the upper and lower pin chambers o

by emhart 13y ago

It catches on the shelf of the pin chamber. Every time you set a pin, the plug actually rotates ever so slightly, misaligning the upper and lower pin chambers of whatever pin you were working on. The driver pin can't return to the lower chamber, and now you are putting pressure on another pin. Find that one, lift up, plug rotates, it sits on the shelf, next pin binds, and so on and so forth.

codezero 13y ago
So does this mean that you have to set pins sequentially? It seems like if the plug rotates slightly, it does it for the entire length of the lock, so doesn't this affect whether or not other pins are able to be set?
- emhart 13y ago
  The reason we can pick locks is that there are many minute differences between the various internal objects. Pins may not be perfectly round, pin chambers may not be in alignment, etc. Small small differences, but when you apply a very light pressure to the pins, you'll actually bind the "weirdest" one first. You aren't binding every pin, just one at a time, when that one is set, you move on to the next weirdest. The order the pins set in will be unique to the lock, not a universal sequence. In fact, the order will change depending on the direction you pick, and even two locks pinned exactly the same will likely set pins in a different order. This is called the "tentative method" and it was pioneered in the late 1700s. This idea of tension & manipulation can be applied to nearly every mechanical locking system (there are a very small number of exceptions).
  - codezero 13y ago
    I see, I guess what I am thinking is that if you are applying pressure to one pin, you must be applying (at least some) pressure to all the other pins since you apply the pressure via torque from turning the cylinder which turns (presumably?) uniformly from front to back. I guess the entire cylinder can jostle slightly within its chamber, so that could affect where and how pressure from torque is applied.
    - emhart 13y ago
      Sorry to say, but what you are thinking is actually just wrong. Drop your mental model and adopt mine. You apply very light pressure to the wrench, which turns the plug, which collides with the weirdest pin out. There are circumstances in which you may bind multiple pins. If the lock is made to absurdly high standards (and I mean lock manufacturer playing a prank on lockpickers level of high standards) or if you apply your tension too heavily. Watch this video to see what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNKvPS1ac6E&list=SP66CD42F86F3A1F85&index=14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNKvPS1ac6E&list=SP66CD42F86F... The first several pins in the lock, as I am searching for the binding pin, are under no pressure whatsoever and can move freely between the upper and lower pin chambers. Also - noticed you are at Quora, I actually write about lockpicking in film and television over there from time to time: http://tvpicking.quora.com http://tvpicking.quora.com
      - codezero 13y ago
        Thanks, to be clear, I wasn't assuming I was right, but was making assumptions, thanks a lot for replying to my comments, you've been very helpful :)
        emhart 13y ago
        No problem :) They are really beautiful, complex systems, and as amazing as it is to understand and then manipulate them, I passionately believe that the real genius is holding them all together in your head before they've ever existed in the first place. Lock engineers have incredibly sharp minds.
        codezero 13y ago
        The video you shared gave me a much better idea of what's happening I'm sure it's still not close to what really is going on, but thanks for that. Unrelated, are there any locks which use full length pins that are hollow and encapsulate the spring? It seems like a big source of the misalignment that allows setting is from the pin itself being able to move off its axis where it attaches to the spring.

by emhart 13y ago

codezero 13y ago

So does this mean that you have to set pins sequentially? It seems like if the plug rotates slightly, it does it for the entire length of the lock, so doesn't this affect whether or not other pins are able to be set?

emhart 13y ago
The reason we can pick locks is that there are many minute differences between the various internal objects. Pins may not be perfectly round, pin chambers may not be in alignment, etc. Small small differences, but when you apply a very light pressure to the pins, you'll actually bind the "weirdest" one first. You aren't binding every pin, just one at a time, when that one is set, you move on to the next weirdest. The order the pins set in will be unique to the lock, not a universal sequence. In fact, the order will change depending on the direction you pick, and even two locks pinned exactly the same will likely set pins in a different order. This is called the "tentative method" and it was pioneered in the late 1700s. This idea of tension & manipulation can be applied to nearly every mechanical locking system (there are a very small number of exceptions).
- codezero 13y ago
  I see, I guess what I am thinking is that if you are applying pressure to one pin, you must be applying (at least some) pressure to all the other pins since you apply the pressure via torque from turning the cylinder which turns (presumably?) uniformly from front to back. I guess the entire cylinder can jostle slightly within its chamber, so that could affect where and how pressure from torque is applied.
  - emhart 13y ago
    Sorry to say, but what you are thinking is actually just wrong. Drop your mental model and adopt mine. You apply very light pressure to the wrench, which turns the plug, which collides with the weirdest pin out. There are circumstances in which you may bind multiple pins. If the lock is made to absurdly high standards (and I mean lock manufacturer playing a prank on lockpickers level of high standards) or if you apply your tension too heavily. Watch this video to see what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNKvPS1ac6E&list=SP66CD42F86F3A1F85&index=14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNKvPS1ac6E&list=SP66CD42F86F... The first several pins in the lock, as I am searching for the binding pin, are under no pressure whatsoever and can move freely between the upper and lower pin chambers. Also - noticed you are at Quora, I actually write about lockpicking in film and television over there from time to time: http://tvpicking.quora.com http://tvpicking.quora.com
    - codezero 13y ago
      Thanks, to be clear, I wasn't assuming I was right, but was making assumptions, thanks a lot for replying to my comments, you've been very helpful :)
      - emhart 13y ago
        No problem :) They are really beautiful, complex systems, and as amazing as it is to understand and then manipulate them, I passionately believe that the real genius is holding them all together in your head before they've ever existed in the first place. Lock engineers have incredibly sharp minds.
        codezero 13y ago
        The video you shared gave me a much better idea of what's happening I'm sure it's still not close to what really is going on, but thanks for that. Unrelated, are there any locks which use full length pins that are hollow and encapsulate the spring? It seems like a big source of the misalignment that allows setting is from the pin itself being able to move off its axis where it attaches to the spring.