6 ms·

He calls it evil but doesn't provide much justification other than what he assumes people already believe. In the interest of philosophical discussion... why i

by brm 17y ago

He calls it evil but doesn't provide much justification other than what he assumes people already believe. In the interest of philosophical discussion... why is maximizing profit using knowledge of consumer behavior "evil" so to speak? If someone uses their available knowledge and decides to enter a swoopo auction, is it really much different than choosing to play at a casino even though we know the house is against us (gambling's existence is something that few outside government seem to have a problem with?)? Is the major hang up that people can pay but not win? If this is known up front can someone provide the rationale behind this being "evil"? Funnily enough I find that the debate over swoopo being evil seems to parallel the debate over spec work being evil (just different currencies involved). Can someone point me to literature on the rational arguments for and against consumer protection?

papaf 17y ago
In the interest of philosophical discussion... why is maximizing profit using knowledge of consumer behavior "evil" so to speak? I wouldn't go as far as saying this auction idea is 'evil' but I personally feel it is morally dubious. This site was put together by probably quite talented people with knowledge of game theory. How are these people using their talent? To make the world a better place, to forward the human race or to take money off others who are more ignorant than themselves? These auctions have losers who lose money and gain nothing. Maybe those who lose enjoy the chase. However, I personally wouldn't be comfortable working on a system such as this.
- brm 17y ago
  and now that you can use bids as credit towards the retail price if you don't win the auction is this negated?
  - papaf 17y ago
    Actually yes.
calambrac 17y ago
evil (n.) - 1. Killin folks, usually. 2. Preying on human weakness for your own personal gain at others' expense. Seriously, if you don't think of this as evil, what's your definition of evil? gambling's existence is something that few outside government seem to have a problem with Um, what planet are you from? At least 3 major world religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) regard gambling as evil.
- gort 17y ago
  There are a couple of explicit condemnations of gambling in the Qur'an, but not in the Bible [as far as I know, corrections welcome] - though things like condemnations of "love of money" might count as indirect condemnations of gambling, I suppose. I recognise that some religious traditions take guidance from more than just the official holy books, but even the official Catholic view seems fairly neutral: that gambling is not immoral in itself, as long as certain conditions are met: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06375b.htm http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06375b.htm
  - Dove 17y ago
    There are none in the Bible. The closest you get are exhortations about work, or warnings about pursuing money. Some folks extrapolate from there, but the arguments against it are always indirect. More often than not, they're not scriptural at all, but are based on practical wisdom ("It destroys lives! It's unproductive!") that doesn't have a lot of basis in actual practice. It's not anything like widespread enough that you could say it was a "Christian teaching," though. While you can still find people who say it's sinful (and you will always be able to), it's getting so that standard Southern Baptist Sunday School materials say, "Is Gambling a Sin? Well . . . not reeeeeaaallly . . . but we don't think it's a good idea." And I think those guys are usually just about the last to let go of issues like that.
  - arakyd 17y ago
    All religious traditions take guidance from more than just holy books (many religions do not even have holy books), and the idea (or assumption) that laypeople can determine religious truth by reading the holy book themselves is pretty much restricted to Protestant Christianity. The fact that Swoopo promotes itself as an auction/shopping site and lists "strategy" as part of the experience skates uncomfortably close to the "no fraud" clause listed in that link, although offering discounts to losing bidders would seem to give them a solid "it's only gambling if you choose to treat it that way" out.
inerte 17y ago
> In the interest of philosophical discussion... why is maximizing profit using knowledge of consumer behavior "evil" so to speak? Because people can be deceived. Math is hard. If I were to belive Coding Horror, even Paul Erdos didn't understand the Monty Hall problem. If you take profit on people's naivety, you're evil. Because every human being is ignorant about something. We're not perfect. We're not always right. BTW, I'm in favour of gambling, when it's clearly marked as such. You don't get better at Swoopo by playing Swoopo, you only win by not playing it all. To say Swoopo labels itself as a system where luck does not play the main role is deceiveing.

by brm 17y ago

papaf 17y ago

In the interest of philosophical discussion... why is maximizing profit using knowledge of consumer behavior "evil" so to speak? I wouldn't go as far as saying this auction idea is 'evil' but I personally feel it is morally dubious. This site was put together by probably quite talented people with knowledge of game theory. How are these people using their talent? To make the world a better place, to forward the human race or to take money off others who are more ignorant than themselves? These auctions have losers who lose money and gain nothing. Maybe those who lose enjoy the chase. However, I personally wouldn't be comfortable working on a system such as this.

brm 17y ago
and now that you can use bids as credit towards the retail price if you don't win the auction is this negated?
- papaf 17y ago
  Actually yes.

calambrac 17y ago

evil (n.) - 1. Killin folks, usually. 2. Preying on human weakness for your own personal gain at others' expense. Seriously, if you don't think of this as evil, what's your definition of evil? gambling's existence is something that few outside government seem to have a problem with Um, what planet are you from? At least 3 major world religions (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) regard gambling as evil.

gort 17y ago
There are a couple of explicit condemnations of gambling in the Qur'an, but not in the Bible [as far as I know, corrections welcome] - though things like condemnations of "love of money" might count as indirect condemnations of gambling, I suppose. I recognise that some religious traditions take guidance from more than just the official holy books, but even the official Catholic view seems fairly neutral: that gambling is not immoral in itself, as long as certain conditions are met: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06375b.htm http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06375b.htm
- Dove 17y ago
  There are none in the Bible. The closest you get are exhortations about work, or warnings about pursuing money. Some folks extrapolate from there, but the arguments against it are always indirect. More often than not, they're not scriptural at all, but are based on practical wisdom ("It destroys lives! It's unproductive!") that doesn't have a lot of basis in actual practice. It's not anything like widespread enough that you could say it was a "Christian teaching," though. While you can still find people who say it's sinful (and you will always be able to), it's getting so that standard Southern Baptist Sunday School materials say, "Is Gambling a Sin? Well . . . not reeeeeaaallly . . . but we don't think it's a good idea." And I think those guys are usually just about the last to let go of issues like that.
- arakyd 17y ago
  All religious traditions take guidance from more than just holy books (many religions do not even have holy books), and the idea (or assumption) that laypeople can determine religious truth by reading the holy book themselves is pretty much restricted to Protestant Christianity. The fact that Swoopo promotes itself as an auction/shopping site and lists "strategy" as part of the experience skates uncomfortably close to the "no fraud" clause listed in that link, although offering discounts to losing bidders would seem to give them a solid "it's only gambling if you choose to treat it that way" out.

inerte 17y ago

> In the interest of philosophical discussion... why is maximizing profit using knowledge of consumer behavior "evil" so to speak? Because people can be deceived. Math is hard. If I were to belive Coding Horror, even Paul Erdos didn't understand the Monty Hall problem. If you take profit on people's naivety, you're evil. Because every human being is ignorant about something. We're not perfect. We're not always right. BTW, I'm in favour of gambling, when it's clearly marked as such. You don't get better at Swoopo by playing Swoopo, you only win by not playing it all. To say Swoopo labels itself as a system where luck does not play the main role is deceiveing.