4 ms·

> The agency charged with monitoring such bankruptcy declarations, a nonprofit with an exclusive government agreement I used to associate nonprofits with human

by Zikes 13y ago

> The agency charged with monitoring such bankruptcy declarations, a nonprofit with an exclusive government agreement I used to associate nonprofits with humanitarian works, almost like charities, but it's pretty obvious lately that in many cases they're just for-profit systems that have found loopholes to exploit. A prime example of this: the NFL is a nonprofit.

mathattack 13y ago
I've learned that the big thing that makes something a non-profit (aside from legality) is they have to disburse their profits. The NYSE was a non-profit until they found legal way to sell themselves. (This is rare - it's actually difficult for non-profits to sell themselves. That's one downside)
danielweber 13y ago
Hang around Cambridgeport where Harvard is expanding and ask them how they feel about non-profits. This "non-profits are good!" vibe is why these companies set themselves up that way. Instead of profits going to shareholders, they just go to the executives.
halter73 13y ago
While I agree that the NFL is certainly not a charity, I'm not sure that the NFL's nonprofit status is necessarily indicative of the league exploiting loopholes. I have always been led to believe that all league profits are shared among the league's for-profit teams who pay the appropriate taxes. Can you explain how the NFL is a prime example of a nonprofit exploiting loopholes?
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- 001sky 13y ago
  The 1961 Sports Broadcasting Act was the first piece of gift-wrapped legislation, granting the leagues legal permission to conduct television-broadcast negotiations in a way that otherwise would have been price collusion. Then, in 1966, Congress enacted Public Law 89‑800, which broadened the limited antitrust exemptions of the 1961 law. But in general, the teams make tons of money and have close zero profits. They use variations of "hollywood" accounting. Which might help explain the cognitive dissonance of profitless monopolies =D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Broadcasting_Act_of_1961 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Broadcasting_Act_of_196... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting
  - halter73 13y ago
    I would consider the Sports Broadcasting Act and the following legislation that expressly permitted the AFL/NFL merger to be, as you imply, well-known gifts from Congress to American professional sports leagues and the NFL in particular. Those are hardly loopholes, however, since the legislation worked exactly as Congress intended as far as I can tell. Your allegations of "Hollywood" accounting seem more consistent with loophole exploitation, but I would like more concrete evidence other than the alleged dearth of team profits.
    - 001sky 13y ago
      Anyone with firsthand access to NFL, MLB, Premier League Soccer(and other pro sports) financial info will attest to the lack of book earnings. see for eg http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/the-money-leagues-part-2-accounting-for-sports http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/the-money-leagues-part-2...
fr0sty 13y ago
not-for-profit and tax-exempt are different things. Tax-exempt entities are also not-for-profit but not all non-profit entities are tax-exempt (Political parties, professional organizations, the NFL,...).
dragonwriter 13y ago
> I used to associate nonprofits with humanitarian works, almost like charities That's, loosely, what 501(c)(3)s are. > A prime example of this: the NFL is a nonprofit. The NFL is a 501(c)(6), which is different than a 501(c)(3) -- 501(c)(6)s are basically associations of (generally, for-profit) business entities.
patrickg_zill 13y ago
If they are a non-profit they should file a Form 990 with the IRS, which is a publicly available document. So, it might be enlightening to read the 990, which details how much money comes in, how it is spent, how the top officers are compensated, etc.
- luciusism 13y ago
  You can read them here: http://www.guidestar.org/ http://www.guidestar.org/
  - justin66 13y ago
    ...if you pay $125, which is ironic given the conversation.
  - patrickg_zill 13y ago
    Looks like they enacted a paywall... Check this instead: http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/ http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/
justin66 13y ago
To put this fully in perspective, for a time Visa and Mastercard were non-profits.

by Zikes 13y ago

mathattack 13y ago

I've learned that the big thing that makes something a non-profit (aside from legality) is they have to disburse their profits. The NYSE was a non-profit until they found legal way to sell themselves. (This is rare - it's actually difficult for non-profits to sell themselves. That's one downside)

danielweber 13y ago

Hang around Cambridgeport where Harvard is expanding and ask them how they feel about non-profits. This "non-profits are good!" vibe is why these companies set themselves up that way. Instead of profits going to shareholders, they just go to the executives.

halter73 13y ago

While I agree that the NFL is certainly not a charity, I'm not sure that the NFL's nonprofit status is necessarily indicative of the league exploiting loopholes. I have always been led to believe that all league profits are shared among the league's for-profit teams who pay the appropriate taxes. Can you explain how the NFL is a prime example of a nonprofit exploiting loopholes?

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
001sky 13y ago
The 1961 Sports Broadcasting Act was the first piece of gift-wrapped legislation, granting the leagues legal permission to conduct television-broadcast negotiations in a way that otherwise would have been price collusion. Then, in 1966, Congress enacted Public Law 89‑800, which broadened the limited antitrust exemptions of the 1961 law. But in general, the teams make tons of money and have close zero profits. They use variations of "hollywood" accounting. Which might help explain the cognitive dissonance of profitless monopolies =D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Broadcasting_Act_of_1961 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_Broadcasting_Act_of_196... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting
- halter73 13y ago
  I would consider the Sports Broadcasting Act and the following legislation that expressly permitted the AFL/NFL merger to be, as you imply, well-known gifts from Congress to American professional sports leagues and the NFL in particular. Those are hardly loopholes, however, since the legislation worked exactly as Congress intended as far as I can tell. Your allegations of "Hollywood" accounting seem more consistent with loophole exploitation, but I would like more concrete evidence other than the alleged dearth of team profits.
  - 001sky 13y ago
    Anyone with firsthand access to NFL, MLB, Premier League Soccer(and other pro sports) financial info will attest to the lack of book earnings. see for eg http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/the-money-leagues-part-2-accounting-for-sports http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/the-money-leagues-part-2...

fr0sty 13y ago

not-for-profit and tax-exempt are different things. Tax-exempt entities are also not-for-profit but not all non-profit entities are tax-exempt (Political parties, professional organizations, the NFL,...).

dragonwriter 13y ago

> I used to associate nonprofits with humanitarian works, almost like charities That's, loosely, what 501(c)(3)s are. > A prime example of this: the NFL is a nonprofit. The NFL is a 501(c)(6), which is different than a 501(c)(3) -- 501(c)(6)s are basically associations of (generally, for-profit) business entities.

patrickg_zill 13y ago

If they are a non-profit they should file a Form 990 with the IRS, which is a publicly available document. So, it might be enlightening to read the 990, which details how much money comes in, how it is spent, how the top officers are compensated, etc.

luciusism 13y ago
You can read them here: http://www.guidestar.org/ http://www.guidestar.org/
- justin66 13y ago
  ...if you pay $125, which is ironic given the conversation.
- patrickg_zill 13y ago
  Looks like they enacted a paywall... Check this instead: http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/ http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/

justin66 13y ago

To put this fully in perspective, for a time Visa and Mastercard were non-profits.