9 ms·

Jolla Outsells iPhone 5S and 5C in Finland

156 points by sirkneeland 13y ago

sirkneeland 13y ago
Obvious caveats: -it is Jolla's home market of Finland -Finland is a small market where slight changes in absolute sales volume can show significant changes -Jolla is satisfying pent-up demand for their phone -it is on one carrier in Finland (the only one where Jolla is offered) -iPhone aggregate demand is split into 2 whereas there is only 1 Jolla model But hey, a win is a win...and it is certainly better than, say, failing to outsell the iPhone on this one carrier in one country And the Jolla also outsold high-end Nokias (only the low-end Lumia 520 outsold the Jolla)
- sentenza 13y ago
  True, but I personally can say that I'm very happy to hear this, as I've been hoping for a serious contender besides Android and IOS. I would like to have a good phone, with a non-dead app ecosystem that is sold to me by a phone vendor as a stand-alone product without a lifestyle template/belief system attached to it. Until this news, Jolla was an "also ran" in my perception, now they are a prime contender for my next smartphone. (Might also be tempted by an upper-tier Firefox OS phone, if that ever happens.) Maybe, just maybe, there will come a time when we have a major smartphone company in Europe. I'm all for it.
  - sirkneeland 13y ago
    "Maybe, just maybe, there will come a time when we have a major smartphone company in Europe again. I'm all for it." (FTFY :) Ericsson pioneered with the R380, Symbian was a decent smartphone OS for its day, and Nokia was Nokia) I also want Europe to have a major smartphone company, and I say that as an overtly (and possibly overly) patriotic American. Competition and choice are good things. Duopolies are usually not good.
  - Jhsto 13y ago
    About the Firefox OS, you could just flash a Nexus phone and have it run on that.
  - mdpane 13y ago
    "True, but I personally can say that I'm very happy to hear this, as I've been hoping for a serious contender besides Android and IOS." Give it a couple years. Samsung's the biggest manufacturer of Android devices and they've been working on Tizen[0] to curtail their dependency on Google. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen
  - s_husso 13y ago
    I agree, I think we really need someone who will try to make something new and gain small % of the markets so that ios/android will also have to start innovating something cool again. That said, I've personally been burned before by the n900 and N9 which were pretty much "dead on arrival", so I'm a bit reluctant to just buy the Jolla device. Even though the company behind the device is totally different. I think I'll have to give my iphone5 to my mom and in return take her N9 and install the Sailfish OS to it, just to get the feel of the OS in daily use.
- untog 13y ago
  Jolla is satisfying pent-up demand for their phone That's the biggest one, IMO. Launch numbers are largely meaningless, let's see how it's doing in two months, let alone six month's time.
- Ironballs 13y ago
  The phone isn't carrier locked, you can buy it online and then put any SIM inside it.
- jorde 13y ago
  The sales number that the article is quoting are for December. I'm not completely sure when Jolla phones started shipping but I think it was early December so this might very well include all the pre-ordered phones.
- Someone 13y ago
  Also: I expect Apple.fi sells many more iPhones in Finland than Jolla.com sells Jollas. But it _is_ good that they can boast about this. Unfortunately, they will need all the good press they can get. It will be a hard fight to survive.
- valgaze 13y ago
  Angry Birds soda for a time was said to outpace Coke & Pepsi in Finland too: http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2012/11/21/rovio-angry-birds-soda-is-the-best-selling-drink-in-finland-ahead-of-coke-and-pepsi/ http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2012/11/21/rovio-angry-bird...
- xmus 13y ago
  am back, remember me (you people put my Karma to -15): THIS is NOT news - home town, a population less than 6Million - hey you outsold iPhone - CONGRATULATIONS! god forbid you outsell iPhone ANYWHERE else! - but hey i APPLAUD Finland using "home grown" phone - BUT comparing it to iPhone - comeon' - you're like coca-cola telling people how much sugar is in a bottle of soda! [they just DON'T tell you the WHOLE story] and down goes my Karma! :)
ommunist 13y ago
Wow. When shall we see it offered at O2 and 3, and Orange and T-Mobile in the UK? Just to gain some more stats, nothing else. Power is in numbers, right?
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  Jolla are working on it ;) Even Apple started with one phone on one carrier to refine the product and process and only then did they start to scale.
- thirdsight 13y ago
  Can already get it. You buy it on jolla.com and stuff a SIM from one of the above in it.
xilaworp 13y ago
I own a Jolla, I currenty use it as my primary phone and the real game-changer here may be that it actually runs Android apps without any signficant problems (so far :-)) even at this early stage (Angry Birds and Skype in my case, which seems me like quite challenging apps to emulate, Skype video calls, for example works). For me this seems to invalidate the ecosystem concept underlying for example the Nokia switch to Microsoft and making Jolla and other smaller phone makers' chances of success a lot bigger.
- jenniferk 13y ago
  Doesn't that ensure that OEMs can't ship it just like Acer was banned from making Aliyun phones? Also, compatibility will ensure that almost no one will bother to make Sailfish apps and that Sailfish is in an eternal race to keep replicating all the functionality that is being pushed into the closed Play Services at an increasing pace.
- lafar6502 13y ago
  Yeah, but why running Android apps is such a game changer? After all, most Android phones can run Android apps too... Why would anyone want to have Jolla and not Android?
  - caprad 13y ago
    I suggest that most Android phones don't run Android apps without significant problems, since most Android phones are cheap devices with bad screens, low memory and slow processors. And most developers instead have the latest and greatest. Most Android phones are not Samsung 4 or HTC one.
  - Brakenshire 13y ago
    There's a significant value in being able to use a phone with a sense of freedom from being watched by a company like Google. To fully use an Android handset, you have to keep Google updated on your location, contacts, calendar, and email, and give them your credit card details. This information is much more sensitive because you are giving it to a company which can combine it with other sources of information.
jenniferk 13y ago
It's hard to find info but isn't the UI and other parts closed source? If that is the case Firefox OS and Ubuntu mobile OS look more promising.
- ballard 13y ago
  I've done ops consulting at about half of the major handset mfgrs. What's missing from many of the mobile open source phone projects is ruthless project management. Without getting to what customers need working most , first instead of whatever I, dev, feel like can hold back any development timeline. Firefox OS has hope because the folks at Mozilla are sharp. I'm sure others do, I just don't have first-hand knowledge of them to make any claims. Also, as far as NSA backdoors, Mozilla has the least likelihood of enabling dragnet surveillance. However it could be potentially leaned-on by Google, their largest revenue source, but a viable, popular handset maybe a way to negate that.
- Zigurd 13y ago
  Jolla is derived from Mer (merproject.org), so it is certain all the Mer parts are open.
aaronbrethorst 13y ago
Alternate, equally accurate headline: 'Jolla fails to outsell 3 Samsung phones, Nokia phone'
wil421 13y ago
Considering all of Finland is about the same population size as the metro area I live in (Metro Atlanta), I think this is irrelevant. Also considering Jolla's home is Finland I am sure they enjoy a pricing advantage or a sense of pride buying something made in Finland. That being said I would really like to see an outsider come into the US and gain some marketshare.
- caprad 13y ago
  Why do people say this is irrelevant? Clearly the small population needs to be taken into consideration, but it is still an interesting point, and could be a sign of things to come or not. Since we all like to be prepared, I think it is something of interest to us here.
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  Pricing advantage no. Pride advantage, of course. I would argue success in a home market may be a necessary but insufficient precondition to "relevance" (however one defines that). They've cleared that first hurdle. And that is to be applauded, I feel.
  - wil421 13y ago
    I wasnt sure about the pricing advantage, some would say we get one for iPhones in the US but others say we are paying for it by getting locked into 2 year contracts.
znowi 13y ago
This is great. A real alternative to surveillance tainted iOS and Android. In addition to this, there's a new Firefox OS phone coming soon (I hope). http://www.geeksphone.com/revolution/ http://www.geeksphone.com/revolution/
- rescripting 13y ago
  Just curious, why isn't BlackBerry a real alternative to surveillance tainted iOS and Android phones?
  - josh2600 13y ago
    Blackberry used to provide hardware-based PIN messaging services. Once the world decided that software was king and that apps trump security it no longer made sense to invest in Blackberry. Ergo, Blackberry is not a real alternative not from a security perspective but from a usability perspective. I'm not saying this is correct, only trying to codify the public perception for your benefit.
  - MehdiEG 13y ago
    At that point, I think that Blackberry is suffering a lot from their now disastrous brand image. It's not that Blackberry isn't a real alternative. It's that most people aren't even considering Blackberry at all anymore. The feeling I get is that it occurs to very few people that Blackberry could even be an alternative. I doubt that many people would notice if they went under tomorrow.
  - SwellJoe 13y ago
    http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-on-smartphones-including-the-blackberry-a-921161.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-...
  - mrweasel 13y ago
    I think their issues with the United Arab Emirates, India and Saudia Arabia regarding BlackBerry either moving servers or handing over encryption keys, tainted their reputation in that regard. The whole thing got very confusing, the customers data might still be safe and secure, but it's not really an area where doubt and stories about the opposite are easily brushed over.
cdooh 13y ago
I need to get my hands on one of these. I used the Maemo OS on the N900 for a couple of years and must say I loved it(having a hardware keyboard was a plus) I've got to say I love the community around it. Just about 40000users left on that particular system yet some of the best support I've ever seen. The community is incredible. If this OS, and phone, can get that same sort of support and community around it(and I don't see why not seeing that they're based on the same cores built by the same teams) I see great things in the future. Like booting Ubuntu, Jolla and Mozilla from the same phone.
- barbs 13y ago
  This may interest you then, if you haven't already seen it: http://neo900.org/ http://neo900.org/
  - cdooh 13y ago
    Wonder if I can send in broke N900 they upgrade it for me. I'll get in touch with them
Zigurd 13y ago
As others have pointed out, Jolla is the "home team" in Finland. Jolla is made of up people formerly at Nokia. Wider success depends on shipping a great product, but it also depends on how much people who liked the Nokia Harmattan and Meego OS smartphones know that Jolla is the successor to those products. Before they were thrown off the "burning platform" they outsold Windows Phone-based products.
- noinsight 13y ago
  Indeed, the Finnish market is pretty skewed, as far as I know, it's the only market where Windows Mobile is @ +30% market share for smart phones (because of Nokia loyalty). It skews the app market too, probably no one outside of Finland cares about Windows Mobile but in Finland supporting it is a big deal.
  - sirkneeland 13y ago
    There are some other markets where Windows Phone is in 2nd place (ahead of iPhones) and so supporting it is indeed a big deal. Italy, some eastern European countries, Southeast Asian countries, South America, possibly Russia...
mmahemoff 13y ago
All these new OSs to try out and develop for ... has anyone attempted a boot manager for them? I'd love to have a single device rocking all the open-source efforts - Android, FxOS, Tizen, Jolla, Ubuntu. I believe at least some of these have been able to run on various Nexus devices, so should be possible? I realise multi-booting isn't practical for end-users, but very useful for developers and tech evaluators while the Cambrian explosion of mobile OSs plays out.
- mintplant 13y ago
  There's MultiROM for the Nexus 7: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011403 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011403
  - mmahemoff 13y ago
    I see, thanks. What I'm really looking for is a single image or script that would automatically flash the device with a bundle of pre-installed OSs. Probably doesn't exist yet.
    - dfgnh555 13y ago
      Once you have installed the modified recovery and bootloader, there's a recovery option where you can queue up as many images as you like. There's also a app to make things even easier: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tassadar.multirommgr https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tassadar.m...
badman_ting 13y ago
It is worth counting total sales by platform as well as by handset.
krig 13y ago
I got the jolla on the 28th or so (bought mine in late November), and I've been using it a little since. I haven't switched from my iPhone, but I do have some impressions: Good: - Sailfish OS is really nice looking, and the gestures have grown on me. Actually, I find myself trying to perform the gestures like closing an app by swiping down on the iPhone as well, and when it doesn't work, the iPhone feels old and clunky. - The phone feels good in the hand, the back has a pleasant smooth feel. It's nowhere as plastic as the galaxy phones, but doesn't have the weight and solidity of the iPhone. In general, I'm happily surprised by the quality of the hardware. - Terminal and SSH access is one click away. Con: - There are no apps. The ones that are there (a media player, a calendar, a mail app) are extremely bare bones. They work, but lack essential functionality. On the plus side, they look good. Well, the browser looks a bit iffy and some of the UI choices there are no good. - Android apps don't really work that well. Of the ones I've tried, only the official Twitter app and the Youtube player really work okay. Most apps either fail to detect network connectivity or crash. Plus, the Android apps run in a VM, not appearing as separate apps in the sailfish UI, and are pretty sluggish. Not a great experience. - The screen is not great, fonts in the browser in particular look terrible. Hopefully this is something that can be improved (some of the fonts in sailfish itself look great). It's not a terrible screen, but it's fairly low resolution. - The camera is pretty bad. This is a bit sad, since my last maemo/meego phone was the N900, and it had a fantastic camera for its time. - Wireless and 3G data are flaky, and 4G is not working at all, yet. Right now, my impression is, despite its flaws, pretty positive. Once there are more apps, the worst bugs are fixed and the browser is a bit more polished, it'll be a pretty nice OS on a slightly outdated phone. If they can get sailfish running on something like the nexus 5, I think that could be a pretty nice choice.
- smashthewindow 13y ago
  You use Terminal and SSH on the phone???
  - _delirium 13y ago
    I do! Though on Android. For things like IRC sessions I prefer to have them running in a screen session remotely and just ssh in. Well, mosh rather than ssh, because it has better support for intermittent connectivity: http://mosh.mit.edu/ http://mosh.mit.edu/
oscargrouch 13y ago
There is a gold mine for Jolla here in Brazil: * Big market * Iphone is too expensive because its built outside of Brazil and have heavy taxes because of it * Android doenst actually have a strong brand.. its good looking and the hardware is more cheap, so people buy because of the lack of options (actually to be fair, samsung is pretty good, as everybody knows) - People dont buy a phone because its a android like they do with Apple Map for the gold mine: * Find a good brazilian partner with good relations and well stablished in traditional industry * Ask for money in development banks like BNDES to build a factory(or use some part of one already built) in Zona Franca de Manaus (with tax incentives) (it will be easy for a project like yours as long Jolla have well conected people here) * Use the factory to export to other south american countries with tax incentives for exports ... I think Brazil is a unique market to launch this things because of the unique environment you have here.. Once Jolla made a pitch and some hits here, they can start to launch in more saturated and sophisticated markets (read apple fanboysm here) like US and EU Really, Jolla should be very serious about that possibility..
- 2muchcoffeeman 13y ago
  Did Apple completely stop Brazilian production? http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/24/apple-now-selling-brazilian-made-iphone-4-but-pricing-remains-high/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/24/apple-now-selling-brazil...
- soapdog 13y ago
  Samsung, LG, Alcatel have factories in Brazil. Foxconn is building a factory in partnership with someone and will produce apple stuff here. Even microsoft and sony build things such as xbox and playstation here (more like assemble but still get incentives). Simply building a Jolla factory with BNDES support will not give them a foothold since everyone else is doing the same thing. To succeed in the Brazilian market they need the following: * Cheap devices. The Jolla phone is more expensive than Android competition, even higher end devices such as Moto G. * Whatsapp support is a must in here. People will decide against a device if it doesnt have whatsapp client. * Agreement with some carrier to push it. * Localized stuff * Multi-sim support. Many Android devices have two or three (and even four) simcard slots so that people can use a simcard for each carrier and call everyone for free. There is a moto g with dual sim in here. Right now, IIRC, Jolla has no multi-sim support, no carrier agreement, no cheap device. Being cheaper than iPhone is not enough, it needs to be cheaper than ~R$300 (close to USD 130) to succeed in here. PS: I am working on this market right now. This are trends I've been experiencing here daily.
mafuyu 13y ago
I preordered and recently paid, but I'm still stuck in the shipping queue. Seems a bit silly to make the preorder customers wait longer, but it's probably to get as many devices out in stores as possible.
gress 13y ago
This is grossly misleading - it outsold the iPhone on the one operator that carries it. Not in the entire Finnish market.
- kazagistar 13y ago
  Well, that was indeed mentioned in the article. It outsold the iphone in the market where it was offered... it is up to you to decide what would happen at other carriers.
  - gress 13y ago
    For sure, but there is a good likelihood that that one carrier absorbed the demand that would otherwise be spread across all four, in which case it wouldn't even have ranked.
bertil 13y ago
I worked for an iOS developer in Finland this summer; it's an amazing but peculiar country. Some elements that might help make sense of the news: - those numbers are only for DNA: it was the operator that I used, great service; it is a relevant operator on the market, but apparently not the best for international roaming or the countryside; Helsinki coverage makes it a preferred option for the savvy, but not the most senior crowd who travels abroad quite a bit; - the tech scene is extremely tight-knight, sprung out of Nokia; most of those have close ties to some of Jollo developers and have internal information on the project; - the country is not only fairly small, it includes SuperCell, Rovio and that’s the tip of the iceberg: dozen of thousands out of the 600k-1.3M people living in Helsinki or around develop for mobiles; most people openly describe how the country made a conscious, political, country-wide pivot from Nokia’s experience in sparse mobile code to iOS games and apps; half the people there seem to personally know game developers; - iPhones 5C and 5S were not available early this summer and as you can imagine, this was a significant, professionally dire problem (on that note: Seriously, Apple!?); people flew and came back with fistfuls of the things up long after Finnish resellers suffered shortages; I believe that operator subsidies on the handsets are not significant (but I can’t say for sure: as a foreigner, I couldn’t hold a contract myself). Because of that, I’m assuming that operator sales of smartphones are a biased sample; traffic data would be preferable for actual use. However, even that usage is skewed: most people have a mobile platform written in bold on their LinkedIn profile, or ask one who has before buying a handset. That they sold significantly is a great sign however: if the product wasn’t good, local buyers would have heard rumors before — and many people buying are actually considering developing for the thing.
- jzzskijj 13y ago
  > those numbers are only for DNA. Because of that, I’m assuming that operator sales of smartphones are a biased sample Correct! As far as I know DNA is a tiny player compared to the biggest operators TeliaSonera and Elisa. So these numbers don't have the handsets sold by Jolla's store. And they don't have iPhones sold by other operators or retailers. I think DNA numbers cover less than 10% of handset sales in Finland.

156 points by sirkneeland 13y ago

Obvious caveats: -it is Jolla's home market of Finland -Finland is a small market where slight changes in absolute sales volume can show significant changes -Jolla is satisfying pent-up demand for their phone -it is on one carrier in Finland (the only one where Jolla is offered) -iPhone aggregate demand is split into 2 whereas there is only 1 Jolla model But hey, a win is a win...and it is certainly better than, say, failing to outsell the iPhone on this one carrier in one country And the Jolla also outsold high-end Nokias (only the low-end Lumia 520 outsold the Jolla)

sentenza 13y ago
True, but I personally can say that I'm very happy to hear this, as I've been hoping for a serious contender besides Android and IOS. I would like to have a good phone, with a non-dead app ecosystem that is sold to me by a phone vendor as a stand-alone product without a lifestyle template/belief system attached to it. Until this news, Jolla was an "also ran" in my perception, now they are a prime contender for my next smartphone. (Might also be tempted by an upper-tier Firefox OS phone, if that ever happens.) Maybe, just maybe, there will come a time when we have a major smartphone company in Europe. I'm all for it.
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  "Maybe, just maybe, there will come a time when we have a major smartphone company in Europe again. I'm all for it." (FTFY :) Ericsson pioneered with the R380, Symbian was a decent smartphone OS for its day, and Nokia was Nokia) I also want Europe to have a major smartphone company, and I say that as an overtly (and possibly overly) patriotic American. Competition and choice are good things. Duopolies are usually not good.
- Jhsto 13y ago
  About the Firefox OS, you could just flash a Nexus phone and have it run on that.
- mdpane 13y ago
  "True, but I personally can say that I'm very happy to hear this, as I've been hoping for a serious contender besides Android and IOS." Give it a couple years. Samsung's the biggest manufacturer of Android devices and they've been working on Tizen[0] to curtail their dependency on Google. [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tizen
- s_husso 13y ago
  I agree, I think we really need someone who will try to make something new and gain small % of the markets so that ios/android will also have to start innovating something cool again. That said, I've personally been burned before by the n900 and N9 which were pretty much "dead on arrival", so I'm a bit reluctant to just buy the Jolla device. Even though the company behind the device is totally different. I think I'll have to give my iphone5 to my mom and in return take her N9 and install the Sailfish OS to it, just to get the feel of the OS in daily use.
untog 13y ago
Jolla is satisfying pent-up demand for their phone That's the biggest one, IMO. Launch numbers are largely meaningless, let's see how it's doing in two months, let alone six month's time.
Ironballs 13y ago
The phone isn't carrier locked, you can buy it online and then put any SIM inside it.
jorde 13y ago
The sales number that the article is quoting are for December. I'm not completely sure when Jolla phones started shipping but I think it was early December so this might very well include all the pre-ordered phones.
Someone 13y ago
Also: I expect Apple.fi sells many more iPhones in Finland than Jolla.com sells Jollas. But it _is_ good that they can boast about this. Unfortunately, they will need all the good press they can get. It will be a hard fight to survive.
valgaze 13y ago
Angry Birds soda for a time was said to outpace Coke & Pepsi in Finland too: http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2012/11/21/rovio-angry-birds-soda-is-the-best-selling-drink-in-finland-ahead-of-coke-and-pepsi/ http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2012/11/21/rovio-angry-bird...
xmus 13y ago
am back, remember me (you people put my Karma to -15): THIS is NOT news - home town, a population less than 6Million - hey you outsold iPhone - CONGRATULATIONS! god forbid you outsell iPhone ANYWHERE else! - but hey i APPLAUD Finland using "home grown" phone - BUT comparing it to iPhone - comeon' - you're like coca-cola telling people how much sugar is in a bottle of soda! [they just DON'T tell you the WHOLE story] and down goes my Karma! :)

ommunist 13y ago

Wow. When shall we see it offered at O2 and 3, and Orange and T-Mobile in the UK? Just to gain some more stats, nothing else. Power is in numbers, right?

sirkneeland 13y ago
Jolla are working on it ;) Even Apple started with one phone on one carrier to refine the product and process and only then did they start to scale.
thirdsight 13y ago
Can already get it. You buy it on jolla.com and stuff a SIM from one of the above in it.

xilaworp 13y ago

I own a Jolla, I currenty use it as my primary phone and the real game-changer here may be that it actually runs Android apps without any signficant problems (so far :-)) even at this early stage (Angry Birds and Skype in my case, which seems me like quite challenging apps to emulate, Skype video calls, for example works). For me this seems to invalidate the ecosystem concept underlying for example the Nokia switch to Microsoft and making Jolla and other smaller phone makers' chances of success a lot bigger.

jenniferk 13y ago
Doesn't that ensure that OEMs can't ship it just like Acer was banned from making Aliyun phones? Also, compatibility will ensure that almost no one will bother to make Sailfish apps and that Sailfish is in an eternal race to keep replicating all the functionality that is being pushed into the closed Play Services at an increasing pace.
lafar6502 13y ago
Yeah, but why running Android apps is such a game changer? After all, most Android phones can run Android apps too... Why would anyone want to have Jolla and not Android?
- caprad 13y ago
  I suggest that most Android phones don't run Android apps without significant problems, since most Android phones are cheap devices with bad screens, low memory and slow processors. And most developers instead have the latest and greatest. Most Android phones are not Samsung 4 or HTC one.
- Brakenshire 13y ago
  There's a significant value in being able to use a phone with a sense of freedom from being watched by a company like Google. To fully use an Android handset, you have to keep Google updated on your location, contacts, calendar, and email, and give them your credit card details. This information is much more sensitive because you are giving it to a company which can combine it with other sources of information.

jenniferk 13y ago

It's hard to find info but isn't the UI and other parts closed source? If that is the case Firefox OS and Ubuntu mobile OS look more promising.

ballard 13y ago
I've done ops consulting at about half of the major handset mfgrs. What's missing from many of the mobile open source phone projects is ruthless project management. Without getting to what customers need working most , first instead of whatever I, dev, feel like can hold back any development timeline. Firefox OS has hope because the folks at Mozilla are sharp. I'm sure others do, I just don't have first-hand knowledge of them to make any claims. Also, as far as NSA backdoors, Mozilla has the least likelihood of enabling dragnet surveillance. However it could be potentially leaned-on by Google, their largest revenue source, but a viable, popular handset maybe a way to negate that.
Zigurd 13y ago
Jolla is derived from Mer (merproject.org), so it is certain all the Mer parts are open.

aaronbrethorst 13y ago

Alternate, equally accurate headline: 'Jolla fails to outsell 3 Samsung phones, Nokia phone'

wil421 13y ago

Considering all of Finland is about the same population size as the metro area I live in (Metro Atlanta), I think this is irrelevant. Also considering Jolla's home is Finland I am sure they enjoy a pricing advantage or a sense of pride buying something made in Finland. That being said I would really like to see an outsider come into the US and gain some marketshare.

caprad 13y ago
Why do people say this is irrelevant? Clearly the small population needs to be taken into consideration, but it is still an interesting point, and could be a sign of things to come or not. Since we all like to be prepared, I think it is something of interest to us here.
sirkneeland 13y ago
Pricing advantage no. Pride advantage, of course. I would argue success in a home market may be a necessary but insufficient precondition to "relevance" (however one defines that). They've cleared that first hurdle. And that is to be applauded, I feel.
- wil421 13y ago
  I wasnt sure about the pricing advantage, some would say we get one for iPhones in the US but others say we are paying for it by getting locked into 2 year contracts.

znowi 13y ago

This is great. A real alternative to surveillance tainted iOS and Android. In addition to this, there's a new Firefox OS phone coming soon (I hope). http://www.geeksphone.com/revolution/ http://www.geeksphone.com/revolution/

rescripting 13y ago
Just curious, why isn't BlackBerry a real alternative to surveillance tainted iOS and Android phones?
- josh2600 13y ago
  Blackberry used to provide hardware-based PIN messaging services. Once the world decided that software was king and that apps trump security it no longer made sense to invest in Blackberry. Ergo, Blackberry is not a real alternative not from a security perspective but from a usability perspective. I'm not saying this is correct, only trying to codify the public perception for your benefit.
- MehdiEG 13y ago
  At that point, I think that Blackberry is suffering a lot from their now disastrous brand image. It's not that Blackberry isn't a real alternative. It's that most people aren't even considering Blackberry at all anymore. The feeling I get is that it occurs to very few people that Blackberry could even be an alternative. I doubt that many people would notice if they went under tomorrow.
- SwellJoe 13y ago
  http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-on-smartphones-including-the-blackberry-a-921161.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/how-the-nsa-spies-...
- mrweasel 13y ago
  I think their issues with the United Arab Emirates, India and Saudia Arabia regarding BlackBerry either moving servers or handing over encryption keys, tainted their reputation in that regard. The whole thing got very confusing, the customers data might still be safe and secure, but it's not really an area where doubt and stories about the opposite are easily brushed over.

cdooh 13y ago

I need to get my hands on one of these. I used the Maemo OS on the N900 for a couple of years and must say I loved it(having a hardware keyboard was a plus) I've got to say I love the community around it. Just about 40000users left on that particular system yet some of the best support I've ever seen. The community is incredible. If this OS, and phone, can get that same sort of support and community around it(and I don't see why not seeing that they're based on the same cores built by the same teams) I see great things in the future. Like booting Ubuntu, Jolla and Mozilla from the same phone.

barbs 13y ago
This may interest you then, if you haven't already seen it: http://neo900.org/ http://neo900.org/
- cdooh 13y ago
  Wonder if I can send in broke N900 they upgrade it for me. I'll get in touch with them

Zigurd 13y ago

As others have pointed out, Jolla is the "home team" in Finland. Jolla is made of up people formerly at Nokia. Wider success depends on shipping a great product, but it also depends on how much people who liked the Nokia Harmattan and Meego OS smartphones know that Jolla is the successor to those products. Before they were thrown off the "burning platform" they outsold Windows Phone-based products.

noinsight 13y ago
Indeed, the Finnish market is pretty skewed, as far as I know, it's the only market where Windows Mobile is @ +30% market share for smart phones (because of Nokia loyalty). It skews the app market too, probably no one outside of Finland cares about Windows Mobile but in Finland supporting it is a big deal.
- sirkneeland 13y ago
  There are some other markets where Windows Phone is in 2nd place (ahead of iPhones) and so supporting it is indeed a big deal. Italy, some eastern European countries, Southeast Asian countries, South America, possibly Russia...

mmahemoff 13y ago

All these new OSs to try out and develop for ... has anyone attempted a boot manager for them? I'd love to have a single device rocking all the open-source efforts - Android, FxOS, Tizen, Jolla, Ubuntu. I believe at least some of these have been able to run on various Nexus devices, so should be possible? I realise multi-booting isn't practical for end-users, but very useful for developers and tech evaluators while the Cambrian explosion of mobile OSs plays out.

mintplant 13y ago
There's MultiROM for the Nexus 7: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011403 http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011403
- mmahemoff 13y ago
  I see, thanks. What I'm really looking for is a single image or script that would automatically flash the device with a bundle of pre-installed OSs. Probably doesn't exist yet.
  - dfgnh555 13y ago
    Once you have installed the modified recovery and bootloader, there's a recovery option where you can queue up as many images as you like. There's also a app to make things even easier: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tassadar.multirommgr https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tassadar.m...

badman_ting 13y ago

It is worth counting total sales by platform as well as by handset.

krig 13y ago

I got the jolla on the 28th or so (bought mine in late November), and I've been using it a little since. I haven't switched from my iPhone, but I do have some impressions: Good: - Sailfish OS is really nice looking, and the gestures have grown on me. Actually, I find myself trying to perform the gestures like closing an app by swiping down on the iPhone as well, and when it doesn't work, the iPhone feels old and clunky. - The phone feels good in the hand, the back has a pleasant smooth feel. It's nowhere as plastic as the galaxy phones, but doesn't have the weight and solidity of the iPhone. In general, I'm happily surprised by the quality of the hardware. - Terminal and SSH access is one click away. Con: - There are no apps. The ones that are there (a media player, a calendar, a mail app) are extremely bare bones. They work, but lack essential functionality. On the plus side, they look good. Well, the browser looks a bit iffy and some of the UI choices there are no good. - Android apps don't really work that well. Of the ones I've tried, only the official Twitter app and the Youtube player really work okay. Most apps either fail to detect network connectivity or crash. Plus, the Android apps run in a VM, not appearing as separate apps in the sailfish UI, and are pretty sluggish. Not a great experience. - The screen is not great, fonts in the browser in particular look terrible. Hopefully this is something that can be improved (some of the fonts in sailfish itself look great). It's not a terrible screen, but it's fairly low resolution. - The camera is pretty bad. This is a bit sad, since my last maemo/meego phone was the N900, and it had a fantastic camera for its time. - Wireless and 3G data are flaky, and 4G is not working at all, yet. Right now, my impression is, despite its flaws, pretty positive. Once there are more apps, the worst bugs are fixed and the browser is a bit more polished, it'll be a pretty nice OS on a slightly outdated phone. If they can get sailfish running on something like the nexus 5, I think that could be a pretty nice choice.

smashthewindow 13y ago
You use Terminal and SSH on the phone???
- _delirium 13y ago
  I do! Though on Android. For things like IRC sessions I prefer to have them running in a screen session remotely and just ssh in. Well, mosh rather than ssh, because it has better support for intermittent connectivity: http://mosh.mit.edu/ http://mosh.mit.edu/

oscargrouch 13y ago

There is a gold mine for Jolla here in Brazil: * Big market * Iphone is too expensive because its built outside of Brazil and have heavy taxes because of it * Android doenst actually have a strong brand.. its good looking and the hardware is more cheap, so people buy because of the lack of options (actually to be fair, samsung is pretty good, as everybody knows) - People dont buy a phone because its a android like they do with Apple Map for the gold mine: * Find a good brazilian partner with good relations and well stablished in traditional industry * Ask for money in development banks like BNDES to build a factory(or use some part of one already built) in Zona Franca de Manaus (with tax incentives) (it will be easy for a project like yours as long Jolla have well conected people here) * Use the factory to export to other south american countries with tax incentives for exports ... I think Brazil is a unique market to launch this things because of the unique environment you have here.. Once Jolla made a pitch and some hits here, they can start to launch in more saturated and sophisticated markets (read apple fanboysm here) like US and EU Really, Jolla should be very serious about that possibility..

2muchcoffeeman 13y ago
Did Apple completely stop Brazilian production? http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/24/apple-now-selling-brazilian-made-iphone-4-but-pricing-remains-high/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/24/apple-now-selling-brazil...
soapdog 13y ago
Samsung, LG, Alcatel have factories in Brazil. Foxconn is building a factory in partnership with someone and will produce apple stuff here. Even microsoft and sony build things such as xbox and playstation here (more like assemble but still get incentives). Simply building a Jolla factory with BNDES support will not give them a foothold since everyone else is doing the same thing. To succeed in the Brazilian market they need the following: * Cheap devices. The Jolla phone is more expensive than Android competition, even higher end devices such as Moto G. * Whatsapp support is a must in here. People will decide against a device if it doesnt have whatsapp client. * Agreement with some carrier to push it. * Localized stuff * Multi-sim support. Many Android devices have two or three (and even four) simcard slots so that people can use a simcard for each carrier and call everyone for free. There is a moto g with dual sim in here. Right now, IIRC, Jolla has no multi-sim support, no carrier agreement, no cheap device. Being cheaper than iPhone is not enough, it needs to be cheaper than ~R$300 (close to USD 130) to succeed in here. PS: I am working on this market right now. This are trends I've been experiencing here daily.

mafuyu 13y ago

I preordered and recently paid, but I'm still stuck in the shipping queue. Seems a bit silly to make the preorder customers wait longer, but it's probably to get as many devices out in stores as possible.

gress 13y ago

This is grossly misleading - it outsold the iPhone on the one operator that carries it. Not in the entire Finnish market.

kazagistar 13y ago
Well, that was indeed mentioned in the article. It outsold the iphone in the market where it was offered... it is up to you to decide what would happen at other carriers.
- gress 13y ago
  For sure, but there is a good likelihood that that one carrier absorbed the demand that would otherwise be spread across all four, in which case it wouldn't even have ranked.

bertil 13y ago

I worked for an iOS developer in Finland this summer; it's an amazing but peculiar country. Some elements that might help make sense of the news: - those numbers are only for DNA: it was the operator that I used, great service; it is a relevant operator on the market, but apparently not the best for international roaming or the countryside; Helsinki coverage makes it a preferred option for the savvy, but not the most senior crowd who travels abroad quite a bit; - the tech scene is extremely tight-knight, sprung out of Nokia; most of those have close ties to some of Jollo developers and have internal information on the project; - the country is not only fairly small, it includes SuperCell, Rovio and that’s the tip of the iceberg: dozen of thousands out of the 600k-1.3M people living in Helsinki or around develop for mobiles; most people openly describe how the country made a conscious, political, country-wide pivot from Nokia’s experience in sparse mobile code to iOS games and apps; half the people there seem to personally know game developers; - iPhones 5C and 5S were not available early this summer and as you can imagine, this was a significant, professionally dire problem (on that note: Seriously, Apple!?); people flew and came back with fistfuls of the things up long after Finnish resellers suffered shortages; I believe that operator subsidies on the handsets are not significant (but I can’t say for sure: as a foreigner, I couldn’t hold a contract myself). Because of that, I’m assuming that operator sales of smartphones are a biased sample; traffic data would be preferable for actual use. However, even that usage is skewed: most people have a mobile platform written in bold on their LinkedIn profile, or ask one who has before buying a handset. That they sold significantly is a great sign however: if the product wasn’t good, local buyers would have heard rumors before — and many people buying are actually considering developing for the thing.

jzzskijj 13y ago
> those numbers are only for DNA. Because of that, I’m assuming that operator sales of smartphones are a biased sample Correct! As far as I know DNA is a tiny player compared to the biggest operators TeliaSonera and Elisa. So these numbers don't have the handsets sold by Jolla's store. And they don't have iPhones sold by other operators or retailers. I think DNA numbers cover less than 10% of handset sales in Finland.