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While praising children for the right thing is important, I don't think that the emphasis should be on praise. It is much more important that parents make a co

While praising children for the right thing is important, I don't think that the emphasis should be on praise. It is much more important that parents make a conscious effort to see the children, try to gauge their emotions, and reflect that in words. In the book "Your Competent Child" (I can highly recommend that to all parents), Jesper Juul gives an example. A child manages to climb up the back side of a slide, and then calls "look, ma!". Now many parents have the urge to say "Wow, you did that really well", and thus give a reward for the child's hard work. But climbing up was fun (even if it was also hard work), and by giving a reward we teach the child to crave the reward, not the fun. Instead, one could just say "Yes, I'm looking", or trying to understand the child better, say "Yes, I'm looking. Did you have fun climbing up? And now maybe you're just a tiny bit scared sliding down?". By simply observing the children, and making it clear that we do, we give value to children themselves, not their intelligence, and not their effort either. IMHO that's a much higher goal. If at some point their motivation fails, they still feel they have value. Once again, for anybody who wants to take children seriously, I highly recommend to read Jesper Juul's books. They were a real eye-opener to me.

dclowd9901 13y ago
> "Yes, I'm looking. Did you have fun climbing up? And now maybe you're just a tiny bit scared sliding down?" Your point notwithstanding, imagining someone actually saying this made me wince with embarrassment. How idiotically contrived.
- perlgeek 13y ago
  Yes, it's a bit contrived, and while it might be embarrassing on hackernews, it's not at all embarrassing when actually dealing with a 1.5yr old.
  - jonsterling 13y ago
    Nope, still embarrassing there too.
    - g8oz 13y ago
      Yeah, wouldn't want to embarrass yourself in front of a toddler.
      - jonsterling 13y ago
        Lol, the purpose of embarrassment is not to avoid censure by those around you, but rather to avoid doing something shameful or disgraceful (whether alone or in company). EDIT: So that I have said something in this thread other than short and flippant remarks: The real problem I have with “And now maybe you're just a tiny bit scared sliding down?” or any other such nonsense, if we put aside the fact that it's so embarrassing I just winced myself in two—the main problem is that it is totally bewildering to the target audience. I know this, because when I was of such an age, I was saddled with caretakers for a time who thought in the same way as this poor fellow here. My four-year-old self is thinking, “Fuck you, I just fuckin climbed up this slide and you can’t stop me, I am fucking fearless—but a little hurt that you didn't think it was as cool as I did.” This is literally my four-year-old interior dialogue. I find it hard to imagine that I'm the only one. In my (albeit limited and anecdotal experience), the little ones do not respond well to such fawning and whipperdogged pop-psychology-inspired beginner's folly emotional claptrap---it either insults them, confuses them, or dismays them. And it certainly does not instill confidence in the creature that you believe they can slide down successfully—and it is indeed reassurance that they were after, make no mistake.
        perlgeek 13y ago
        Context. Context. Of course you don't say it to 4yr old who does that thing 20 times a day. You say it to 1.5yr who did it the first or second time, and actually is hesitant. Somehow I get the impression that you are deliberately trying to interpret everything in the poorest possible light, without any sense of context. Please stop that.
- scott_s 13y ago
  Why did it make you wince with embarrassment? From spending time with my nephews and friend's daughters, I know it's reasonable. I probably would have phrased it, "I see! Did you have fun climbing up? Do you want to slide down?" I probably wouldn't use the word "scared" unless I thought they actually looked scared.
  - dclowd9901 13y ago
    I imagined standing next to a proverbial armchair-child-psychologist saying this to their child, and then looking over at them with a disgusted look on my face at the amount of shallow over-understanding it implied. If it was only a bit funnier, it would be a line for a skit about hippie parents on a sketch comedy show.
amenod 13y ago
I respectfully disagree. There is nothing wrong with rewarding the child for his/her accomplishment, quite the contrary. I would also argue that it is especially important to show your love through the praise - verbal or not. If you try to repress that by using weird phrases like the one above I think you are not doing your child a favor. The children learn from example, not from your words. Do YOU have fun doing your work? Do YOU enjoy mowing the lawn? Do YOU enjoy riding the bicycle? Then your child will too. Admittedly I haven't read Jull, but I have heard a few quotes from his books before and none of them made sense to me either.
- perlgeek 13y ago
  You're right, there's nothing wrong with praise. It just shouldn't be the major reaction that children get from their parents. > The children learn from example, not from your words. Do YOU have fun doing your work? Do YOU enjoy mowing the lawn? Do YOU enjoy riding the bicycle? Then your child will too. Correct. And do you value them for just being them, instead of their achievements and their effort? if yes, they will too. > Admittedly I haven't read Jull, but I have heard a few quotes from his books before and none of them made sense to me either. They didn't make sense to me either, until I actually read the book. It's too big a shift from "standard" educational approaches to be summarized in a few quotes.
- sesquipedantic 13y ago
  A parent's simple act of being responsive is a form of praise. This will typically include looking and smiling, though there's little point in trying to fake such things if they don't come naturally. Children who don't have responsive parents will tend to 'misbehave' until the parents become more responsive. I put 'misbehave' in quotes because although the form of the behaviour is bad, children are entitled to have responsive parents, and they know no other means of obtaining them I think I know what you mean about words: children learn their moral ideas from parental behavior rather than from what their parents explicitly tell them to do. But note that parental behavior includes words. So the principle is consistent with giving verbal descriptions of what a child is doing as he is doing it, or just after, or asking a question about it if you have one. (I mean a real question, which is only rarely about feelings. I add this because all too many adult-child interactions are peppered with fake questions like 'Are you a good boy?' etc) Verbal descriptions are helpful especially when, as we are discussing, something cool has happened, since there the child is operating at the edge of his ability and understanding, which is usually inexplicit in his mind. A verbal understanding helps to consolidate the achievement and also to introduce creative variations

dclowd9901 13y ago

> "Yes, I'm looking. Did you have fun climbing up? And now maybe you're just a tiny bit scared sliding down?" Your point notwithstanding, imagining someone actually saying this made me wince with embarrassment. How idiotically contrived.

perlgeek 13y ago
Yes, it's a bit contrived, and while it might be embarrassing on hackernews, it's not at all embarrassing when actually dealing with a 1.5yr old.
- jonsterling 13y ago
  Nope, still embarrassing there too.
  - g8oz 13y ago
    Yeah, wouldn't want to embarrass yourself in front of a toddler.
    - jonsterling 13y ago
      Lol, the purpose of embarrassment is not to avoid censure by those around you, but rather to avoid doing something shameful or disgraceful (whether alone or in company). EDIT: So that I have said something in this thread other than short and flippant remarks: The real problem I have with “And now maybe you're just a tiny bit scared sliding down?” or any other such nonsense, if we put aside the fact that it's so embarrassing I just winced myself in two—the main problem is that it is totally bewildering to the target audience. I know this, because when I was of such an age, I was saddled with caretakers for a time who thought in the same way as this poor fellow here. My four-year-old self is thinking, “Fuck you, I just fuckin climbed up this slide and you can’t stop me, I am fucking fearless—but a little hurt that you didn't think it was as cool as I did.” This is literally my four-year-old interior dialogue. I find it hard to imagine that I'm the only one. In my (albeit limited and anecdotal experience), the little ones do not respond well to such fawning and whipperdogged pop-psychology-inspired beginner's folly emotional claptrap---it either insults them, confuses them, or dismays them. And it certainly does not instill confidence in the creature that you believe they can slide down successfully—and it is indeed reassurance that they were after, make no mistake.
      - perlgeek 13y ago
        Context. Context. Of course you don't say it to 4yr old who does that thing 20 times a day. You say it to 1.5yr who did it the first or second time, and actually is hesitant. Somehow I get the impression that you are deliberately trying to interpret everything in the poorest possible light, without any sense of context. Please stop that.
scott_s 13y ago
Why did it make you wince with embarrassment? From spending time with my nephews and friend's daughters, I know it's reasonable. I probably would have phrased it, "I see! Did you have fun climbing up? Do you want to slide down?" I probably wouldn't use the word "scared" unless I thought they actually looked scared.
- dclowd9901 13y ago
  I imagined standing next to a proverbial armchair-child-psychologist saying this to their child, and then looking over at them with a disgusted look on my face at the amount of shallow over-understanding it implied. If it was only a bit funnier, it would be a line for a skit about hippie parents on a sketch comedy show.

amenod 13y ago

I respectfully disagree. There is nothing wrong with rewarding the child for his/her accomplishment, quite the contrary. I would also argue that it is especially important to show your love through the praise - verbal or not. If you try to repress that by using weird phrases like the one above I think you are not doing your child a favor. The children learn from example, not from your words. Do YOU have fun doing your work? Do YOU enjoy mowing the lawn? Do YOU enjoy riding the bicycle? Then your child will too. Admittedly I haven't read Jull, but I have heard a few quotes from his books before and none of them made sense to me either.

perlgeek 13y ago
You're right, there's nothing wrong with praise. It just shouldn't be the major reaction that children get from their parents. > The children learn from example, not from your words. Do YOU have fun doing your work? Do YOU enjoy mowing the lawn? Do YOU enjoy riding the bicycle? Then your child will too. Correct. And do you value them for just being them, instead of their achievements and their effort? if yes, they will too. > Admittedly I haven't read Jull, but I have heard a few quotes from his books before and none of them made sense to me either. They didn't make sense to me either, until I actually read the book. It's too big a shift from "standard" educational approaches to be summarized in a few quotes.
sesquipedantic 13y ago
A parent's simple act of being responsive is a form of praise. This will typically include looking and smiling, though there's little point in trying to fake such things if they don't come naturally. Children who don't have responsive parents will tend to 'misbehave' until the parents become more responsive. I put 'misbehave' in quotes because although the form of the behaviour is bad, children are entitled to have responsive parents, and they know no other means of obtaining them I think I know what you mean about words: children learn their moral ideas from parental behavior rather than from what their parents explicitly tell them to do. But note that parental behavior includes words. So the principle is consistent with giving verbal descriptions of what a child is doing as he is doing it, or just after, or asking a question about it if you have one. (I mean a real question, which is only rarely about feelings. I add this because all too many adult-child interactions are peppered with fake questions like 'Are you a good boy?' etc) Verbal descriptions are helpful especially when, as we are discussing, something cool has happened, since there the child is operating at the edge of his ability and understanding, which is usually inexplicit in his mind. A verbal understanding helps to consolidate the achievement and also to introduce creative variations