4 ms·

On the surface, I welcome this editorial. About time. But the NYT has deep connections to the USG, so I'm wondering where this editorial is coming from. It cou

by ajays 13y ago

On the surface, I welcome this editorial. About time. But the NYT has deep connections to the USG, so I'm wondering where this editorial is coming from. It could be a trial balloon on the part of the administration to test the public's appetite for a reduced sentence for Snowden.

scw 13y ago
That's an interesting idea. Are there past documented instances of the editorial board being used in this capacity?
- belluchan 13y ago
  In no shape or form is the vaunted editorial page of The New York Times going to be let itself used as the president's trial balloon. You've got to be kidding me.
  - polarix 13y ago
    Is your comment sarcasm?
  - visakanv 13y ago
    This implies a very straightforward "either the NYT is the POTUS's bitch, or it is independent" situation. I think there's a win-win outcome to be had, from the NYT's perspective, where the NYT prides itself on being the authoritative source that even the POTUS relies on.
gavinlynch 13y ago
Without making a judgement call on the virtue of his of actions: I consider myself very skeptical of the notion that this administration, which has cracked down on whistle-blowers/leakers as much (or more) than any other, is about to offer anything other than the "full weight of Justice" on Snowden. I enjoyed Philip Bump's piece from the Atlantic about this: "Why Does CBS Keep Asking Its Ridiculous Amnesty Question About Snowden?" http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/12/why-does-cbs-keep-asking-its-completely-wrong-amnesty-question-about-snowden/356431/ http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/12/why-does-cbs-keep-as... What can Snowden promise them, anyway, that they would make this deal? The toothpaste is out of the tube.
- davidw 13y ago
  > What can Snowden promise them, anyway, that they would make this deal? The toothpaste is out of the tube. My understanding is that he has actually been quite a bit more judicious than Manning about what he has released, putting out stuff that clearly shows what the NSA is doing wrong. I get the impression that he does have more material that could go out but he doesn't feel really needs to be public, as a bargaining chip.
  - ceejayoz 13y ago
    > My understanding is that he has actually been quite a bit more judicious than Manning about what he has released, putting out stuff that clearly shows what the NSA is doing wrong. I get the impression that he does have more material that could go out but he doesn't feel really needs to be public, as a bargaining chip. I believe he's claimed to have gotten rid of all materials prior to going to Russia. They're in the hands of the team of journalists distributed around the world.
    - gavinlynch 13y ago
      This was my impression as well.
    - tripzilch 13y ago
      > I believe he's claimed to have gotten rid of all materials prior to going to Russia. This was in response to the question about this data accidentally falling into wrong hands. He said he was very confident that nothing was stolen copied or accessed during his stay in Hong Kong, and that he completely wiped his harddisk before going to Russia. This doesn't mean that this data does not exist, anywhere, as a bargaining chip. Just that it is not present with him, on a physical storage medium in Russia.
  - mpyne 13y ago
    > My understanding is that he has actually been quite a bit more judicious than Manning about what he has released, putting out stuff that clearly shows what the NSA is doing wrong. That was his claim, yes, but it's quite incorrect. Various journalists have the data now and are piecing through it, not Snowden, but things like details of Chinese hacking or tapping into Merkel or Medvedev's phone calls are not violations of U.S. civil liberties and can hardly be said to have been judicious disclosures. In that regard Manning actually ends up with a better case IMHO; Snowden claimed to have specifically looked at and identified every piece of data he took as requiring disclosure (although taking 58,000-1,000,000+ pieces in a year with a full-time job to do would tend to argue against being 'selective'), so any areas where Snowden leaked something that was only vital to national security happened after he specifically cleared it. Manning, on the other hand, specifically released a few things but other than that let loose a bunch of data she never quite scanned through. This was definitely negligent, but doesn't seem to have been malicious.

by ajays 13y ago

scw 13y ago

That's an interesting idea. Are there past documented instances of the editorial board being used in this capacity?

belluchan 13y ago
In no shape or form is the vaunted editorial page of The New York Times going to be let itself used as the president's trial balloon. You've got to be kidding me.
- polarix 13y ago
  Is your comment sarcasm?
- visakanv 13y ago
  This implies a very straightforward "either the NYT is the POTUS's bitch, or it is independent" situation. I think there's a win-win outcome to be had, from the NYT's perspective, where the NYT prides itself on being the authoritative source that even the POTUS relies on.

gavinlynch 13y ago

Without making a judgement call on the virtue of his of actions: I consider myself very skeptical of the notion that this administration, which has cracked down on whistle-blowers/leakers as much (or more) than any other, is about to offer anything other than the "full weight of Justice" on Snowden. I enjoyed Philip Bump's piece from the Atlantic about this: "Why Does CBS Keep Asking Its Ridiculous Amnesty Question About Snowden?" http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/12/why-does-cbs-keep-asking-its-completely-wrong-amnesty-question-about-snowden/356431/ http://www.thewire.com/politics/2013/12/why-does-cbs-keep-as... What can Snowden promise them, anyway, that they would make this deal? The toothpaste is out of the tube.

davidw 13y ago
> What can Snowden promise them, anyway, that they would make this deal? The toothpaste is out of the tube. My understanding is that he has actually been quite a bit more judicious than Manning about what he has released, putting out stuff that clearly shows what the NSA is doing wrong. I get the impression that he does have more material that could go out but he doesn't feel really needs to be public, as a bargaining chip.
- ceejayoz 13y ago
  > My understanding is that he has actually been quite a bit more judicious than Manning about what he has released, putting out stuff that clearly shows what the NSA is doing wrong. I get the impression that he does have more material that could go out but he doesn't feel really needs to be public, as a bargaining chip. I believe he's claimed to have gotten rid of all materials prior to going to Russia. They're in the hands of the team of journalists distributed around the world.
  - gavinlynch 13y ago
    This was my impression as well.
  - tripzilch 13y ago
    > I believe he's claimed to have gotten rid of all materials prior to going to Russia. This was in response to the question about this data accidentally falling into wrong hands. He said he was very confident that nothing was stolen copied or accessed during his stay in Hong Kong, and that he completely wiped his harddisk before going to Russia. This doesn't mean that this data does not exist, anywhere, as a bargaining chip. Just that it is not present with him, on a physical storage medium in Russia.
- mpyne 13y ago
  > My understanding is that he has actually been quite a bit more judicious than Manning about what he has released, putting out stuff that clearly shows what the NSA is doing wrong. That was his claim, yes, but it's quite incorrect. Various journalists have the data now and are piecing through it, not Snowden, but things like details of Chinese hacking or tapping into Merkel or Medvedev's phone calls are not violations of U.S. civil liberties and can hardly be said to have been judicious disclosures. In that regard Manning actually ends up with a better case IMHO; Snowden claimed to have specifically looked at and identified every piece of data he took as requiring disclosure (although taking 58,000-1,000,000+ pieces in a year with a full-time job to do would tend to argue against being 'selective'), so any areas where Snowden leaked something that was only vital to national security happened after he specifically cleared it. Manning, on the other hand, specifically released a few things but other than that let loose a bunch of data she never quite scanned through. This was definitely negligent, but doesn't seem to have been malicious.