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> "Why are we so obsessed with finding genetic reasons to explain thinking differences in gender(or race) when there are obvious social/cultural pressures?" Is

> "Why are we so obsessed with finding genetic reasons to explain thinking differences in gender(or race) when there are obvious social/cultural pressures?" Isn't that another way of saying "Why do people care about science, when its findings might make us uncomfortable? And besides, my ideology already tells me how the world works."

smtddr 13y ago
I knew you'd comment on this. You seem to show up on all stories about gender & race differences. Anyways, note the part where I say "I'd feel better about these studies if they could somehow account for these outside influences." Without accounting for those factors, these studies are at best 50/50. EDIT: I also knew the downvote-brigade would be right there with you to destroy my reply the moment I submitted it. 3 downvotes in 10 seconds.
- oddx 13y ago
  > downvote Maybe it because you become personal instead of bringing arguments?
  - yetanotherphd 13y ago
    This. It creates a very unpleasant atmosphere when you comment on someone's posting history in a negative way, which is not relevant to the topic. We should be able to debate a topic without bringing in other people's motivations or character.
- newnewnew 13y ago
  I didn't downvote you.
logjam 13y ago
Oh my. Project much? Your attempt to rephrase his question to try to suit a silly ideology has nothing to do with "science", is merely your own appeal to emotion, and isn't doing a thing to advance the discussion, moldburg. Now, do you have anything at all cogent to say about the obvious cultural and economic forces that create differences?
- newnewnew 13y ago
  It is incredibly difficult to untangle the effects of culture from those of biology, especially when dealing with the measured psychological differences between men and women. But when the effects are purely biological, as in this article, a cultural explanation is extremely un-parsimonious. The burden is on the proposer if he wants me to believe that the age of brain structure maturation is determined by which toys a child plays with.
  - logjam 13y ago
    "...incredibly difficult to untangle the effects of culture from those of biology..." followed a few sentences later immediately by dismissal of consideration that "the age of brain structure maturation is determined by which toys a child plays with". Sigh. Honest question: do you even read what you fucking write?
    - yetanotherphd 13y ago
      change it to "incredibly difficult in general" in the first sentence to get at the poster's real meaning. And the attitude of your post is completely out of line for HN. I'm getting really sick of people with the attitude of "I'm right so I can verbally abuse people who are wrong". You should be ashamed of yourself for writing like that.
- apricot7 13y ago
  Now, do you have anything at all cogent to say about the obvious cultural and economic forces that create differences? Let's think about this. We know there are differences in brain chemistry between males and females, and those difference surge around puberty when sex hormones are flooding the system (rather than appearing gradually over time as a result of playing with different toys). That said, the fact that males and females have different brains doesn't preclude other culture differences. But why are these differences so similar across nearly every culture? A close relative of ours might explain this: Monkeys! Male monkeys prefer playing with traditional male toys, like trucks and balls, while female monkeys prefer playing with traditional female toys, like dolls. Predisposition to prefer certain types of stimulus is quite likely hardcoded in every one of us. The study was conducted on two different species of monkey: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-prefer-boys-toys.html#.UsR3vGRDuwE http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-pre...

smtddr 13y ago

I knew you'd comment on this. You seem to show up on all stories about gender & race differences. Anyways, note the part where I say "I'd feel better about these studies if they could somehow account for these outside influences." Without accounting for those factors, these studies are at best 50/50. EDIT: I also knew the downvote-brigade would be right there with you to destroy my reply the moment I submitted it. 3 downvotes in 10 seconds.

oddx 13y ago
> downvote Maybe it because you become personal instead of bringing arguments?
- yetanotherphd 13y ago
  This. It creates a very unpleasant atmosphere when you comment on someone's posting history in a negative way, which is not relevant to the topic. We should be able to debate a topic without bringing in other people's motivations or character.
newnewnew 13y ago
I didn't downvote you.

logjam 13y ago

Oh my. Project much? Your attempt to rephrase his question to try to suit a silly ideology has nothing to do with "science", is merely your own appeal to emotion, and isn't doing a thing to advance the discussion, moldburg. Now, do you have anything at all cogent to say about the obvious cultural and economic forces that create differences?

newnewnew 13y ago
It is incredibly difficult to untangle the effects of culture from those of biology, especially when dealing with the measured psychological differences between men and women. But when the effects are purely biological, as in this article, a cultural explanation is extremely un-parsimonious. The burden is on the proposer if he wants me to believe that the age of brain structure maturation is determined by which toys a child plays with.
- logjam 13y ago
  "...incredibly difficult to untangle the effects of culture from those of biology..." followed a few sentences later immediately by dismissal of consideration that "the age of brain structure maturation is determined by which toys a child plays with". Sigh. Honest question: do you even read what you fucking write?
  - yetanotherphd 13y ago
    change it to "incredibly difficult in general" in the first sentence to get at the poster's real meaning. And the attitude of your post is completely out of line for HN. I'm getting really sick of people with the attitude of "I'm right so I can verbally abuse people who are wrong". You should be ashamed of yourself for writing like that.
apricot7 13y ago
Now, do you have anything at all cogent to say about the obvious cultural and economic forces that create differences? Let's think about this. We know there are differences in brain chemistry between males and females, and those difference surge around puberty when sex hormones are flooding the system (rather than appearing gradually over time as a result of playing with different toys). That said, the fact that males and females have different brains doesn't preclude other culture differences. But why are these differences so similar across nearly every culture? A close relative of ours might explain this: Monkeys! Male monkeys prefer playing with traditional male toys, like trucks and balls, while female monkeys prefer playing with traditional female toys, like dolls. Predisposition to prefer certain types of stimulus is quite likely hardcoded in every one of us. The study was conducted on two different species of monkey: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-prefer-boys-toys.html#.UsR3vGRDuwE http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-pre...