12 ms·

Brain connections may explain why girls mature faster

35 points by gygygy 13y ago

smtddr 13y ago
Why are we so obsessed with finding genetic reasons to explain thinking differences in gender(or race) when the obvious elephant-in-the-room are social/cultural pressures that must have a huge impact? I'd feel better about these studies if they could somehow account for these outside influences. How about the whole idea of "boys will be boys" versus "A lady must be clean & proper". Don't we pretty much enforce responsibility & "proper adult lady" behavior in girls super early? Generally frowned upon when girls use bad language, spit in public, not sit up straight in chairs, etc. We enforce girls to act like proper, well-behaved princesses from day one. We also know that it's much easier for a woman to ruin her lady-like image[0] than for a guy to ruin his. In fact, looking at TVshows like JerseyShore and the whole gangsta-hiphop image... I can't think of any way for a man to ruin his social image short of being accused of child molestation. For boys, it's just "Go wild!" and that attitude seems to carry all the way to college for the most part, hence the whole frat-house start-up culture. The only responsibility that's really drilled into boys growing up is to just avoid doing things that'll land 'em in jail. Any other anti-social behavior(like loud burping in public & having many, many nights with random ladies) is just fine. In fact, being a responsible & well-behaved male adult makes you a wimp it seems! http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/54507/danny-tanner-wtf-o.gif http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/54507/danny-tanner-wtf-o.gif 0. http://www.alternet.org/story/86736/he's_a_stud,_she's_a_slut%3A_the_sexual_double_standard http://www.alternet.org/story/86736/he's_a_stud,_she's_a_slu... Girls typical toys: http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/www.dailydawdle.com/images.dailydawdle.com/horribly-depressing-wtf-sexist-girls-toys-fail2.jpg.pagespeed.ce.dHneSXUbXG.jpg http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/www.dailydawdle.com/imag... http://genderfatigue.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/girls_toy_ironing_board_set.jpg http://genderfatigue.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/girls_toy_i... http://www.stylishtrendy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/top-ten-girls-toys-for-2012_2.jpg http://www.stylishtrendy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/top-... http://www.novanatural.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/8/4805-sweet-baby-doll.jpg http://www.novanatural.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/ima... Boys typical toys: http://cf067b.medialib.glogster.com/media/5e/5e59e3fc4e4be00b7415e9f94a7863acba5d7a632781c7583c07a635c3d612a4/toys-for-boys.jpg http://cf067b.medialib.glogster.com/media/5e/5e59e3fc4e4be00... http://themamareport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/transformers-action-figures.jpg http://themamareport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/transfor... http://www.mommyq.com/wp-content/uploads/Track.jpg http://www.mommyq.com/wp-content/uploads/Track.jpg (Also, LOL @ the photoshopped-in black boy for diversity.)
- newnewnew 13y ago
  > "Why are we so obsessed with finding genetic reasons to explain thinking differences in gender(or race) when there are obvious social/cultural pressures?" Isn't that another way of saying "Why do people care about science, when its findings might make us uncomfortable? And besides, my ideology already tells me how the world works."
  - smtddr 13y ago
    I knew you'd comment on this. You seem to show up on all stories about gender & race differences. Anyways, note the part where I say "I'd feel better about these studies if they could somehow account for these outside influences." Without accounting for those factors, these studies are at best 50/50. EDIT: I also knew the downvote-brigade would be right there with you to destroy my reply the moment I submitted it. 3 downvotes in 10 seconds.
    - oddx 13y ago
      > downvote Maybe it because you become personal instead of bringing arguments?
      - yetanotherphd 13y ago
        This. It creates a very unpleasant atmosphere when you comment on someone's posting history in a negative way, which is not relevant to the topic. We should be able to debate a topic without bringing in other people's motivations or character.
    - newnewnew 13y ago
      I didn't downvote you.
  - logjam 13y ago
    Oh my. Project much? Your attempt to rephrase his question to try to suit a silly ideology has nothing to do with "science", is merely your own appeal to emotion, and isn't doing a thing to advance the discussion, moldburg. Now, do you have anything at all cogent to say about the obvious cultural and economic forces that create differences?
thenerdfiles 13y ago
Like I said: 10,000 hours for boys, 8,000 hours for girls. But the environment has been colored, offset by slavery and sexual politics. It is inevitable that agents like 'pg' (Paul Graham) must say and show, despite personal capacity toward self-interest.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- logjam 13y ago
  Great. Cherry picking at its finest. Were you saying something about "science" down below? > there are large genetically distinct human population groups that correspond ~80% with our notions about race. Oh really? What exactly are "our notions" about race? Who precisely are you referring to as holding "our" notions? And why was it so important for you to try to insert [again] your own everlasting axe-grinding notions about "race" into this particular discussion?
  - newnewnew 13y ago
    Fair enough, it is off-topic. Edited
spullara 13y ago
You could probably leave off the "faster" in the headline.
needacig 13y ago
tl;dr More "proof" that men are biologically superior to women.
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  How on earth did you get that from the article? Why does difference have to imply an ordering?
  - needacig 13y ago
    ``Differences in biology'' are consistently cited as justification for sexist beliefs. (An example of a sexist belief is, ``women are better suited to careers requiring nurturing and communication over logic and leadership.'') You are correct that this article did not imply an ordering in its findings, but given that men dominate higher prestige social and professional positions globally, people are constantly searching for justifications of this that seem ``fair'' to them: biology. It is primarily men who are presidents and scientists and CEOs and leaders of families and religions. Why? Because on average, they're just better at it. Because biology. Or so they say. When small differences are desperately sought out, and vast similarities are ignored, all to justify what is arguably an inequitable situation, I'm wary. Scientific sexism and scientific racism are not new. The findings of the scientific process are not immune from the bigotries of its practitioners and the era in which they live. Science is a process, not an outcome.
    - orangecat 13y ago
      ``Differences in biology'' are consistently cited as justification for sexist beliefs. And Darwinian evolution has been cited as justification for letting the poor starve. So what? The findings of the scientific process are not immune from the bigotries of its practitioners and the era in which they live. Science is a process, not an outcome. So anyone studying differences between men and women is motivated by a desire to oppress women and maintain the patriarchy?
      - needacig 13y ago
dtf 13y ago
Note that only the headline says "may explain why girls mature faster". Note the use of "may". Yet within days, this research becomes: "Girls really do mature quicker than boys, scientists find" - The Telegraph "Why Girls’ Brains Mature Faster Than Boys' Brains" - Time "Science proves girls do mature faster than boys" - San Francisco Chronicle There was a similar charade a few weeks back when a PNAS paper about differences in the connections between male and female subjects (concluding that males connected more strongly front to back, females more strongly laterally) turned into hundreds of front-page stories about women being better at multitasking and men better at map reading, before being roundly denounced as quite shoddy research. By then of course, the meme has stuck, because we love having our prejudices confirmed. The main difference between male and female brains is that male brains tend to be bigger: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2013/09/25/are-mens-brains-just-bigger/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2013/09/25/ar...
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - dtf 13y ago
    I just want to stress I have no problem with the research presented here, just with the way it is presented - "sexed up", as it were - on the way to the media.
- apricot7 13y ago
  There was a similar charade a few weeks back when a PNAS paper about differences in the connections between male and female subjects (concluding that males connected more strongly front to back, females more strongly laterally) [...] roundly denounced as quite shoddy research It wasn't roundly denounced as shoddy research, unless you're referring to certain groups being angry with the study. Posts on Jezebel, Feministe and Tumblr were angry, and they tried to spin the results inaccurately. They claimed that the results indicated that female brains were different because of culture, and they claimed we should stop acting like there are innate non-physical differences between men and women. Unfortunately for them, the differences in brain chemistry became pronounced not during the brain's most plastic years, but rapidly during puberty during the flood of sex hormones. And the study made that clear. I don't know why the notion of different brain chemistry is so threatening to some groups, but it is what it is.
ps4fanboy 13y ago
What a sexist article, everyone knows men and women are exactly the same.

35 points by gygygy 13y ago

Why are we so obsessed with finding genetic reasons to explain thinking differences in gender(or race) when the obvious elephant-in-the-room are social/cultural pressures that must have a huge impact? I'd feel better about these studies if they could somehow account for these outside influences. How about the whole idea of "boys will be boys" versus "A lady must be clean & proper". Don't we pretty much enforce responsibility & "proper adult lady" behavior in girls super early? Generally frowned upon when girls use bad language, spit in public, not sit up straight in chairs, etc. We enforce girls to act like proper, well-behaved princesses from day one. We also know that it's much easier for a woman to ruin her lady-like image[0] than for a guy to ruin his. In fact, looking at TVshows like JerseyShore and the whole gangsta-hiphop image... I can't think of any way for a man to ruin his social image short of being accused of child molestation. For boys, it's just "Go wild!" and that attitude seems to carry all the way to college for the most part, hence the whole frat-house start-up culture. The only responsibility that's really drilled into boys growing up is to just avoid doing things that'll land 'em in jail. Any other anti-social behavior(like loud burping in public & having many, many nights with random ladies) is just fine. In fact, being a responsible & well-behaved male adult makes you a wimp it seems! http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/54507/danny-tanner-wtf-o.gif http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/54507/danny-tanner-wtf-o.gif 0. http://www.alternet.org/story/86736/he's_a_stud,_she's_a_slut%3A_the_sexual_double_standard http://www.alternet.org/story/86736/he's_a_stud,_she's_a_slu... Girls typical toys: http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/www.dailydawdle.com/images.dailydawdle.com/horribly-depressing-wtf-sexist-girls-toys-fail2.jpg.pagespeed.ce.dHneSXUbXG.jpg http://1-ps.googleusercontent.com/x/www.dailydawdle.com/imag... http://genderfatigue.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/girls_toy_ironing_board_set.jpg http://genderfatigue.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/girls_toy_i... http://www.stylishtrendy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/top-ten-girls-toys-for-2012_2.jpg http://www.stylishtrendy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/top-... http://www.novanatural.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/4/8/4805-sweet-baby-doll.jpg http://www.novanatural.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/ima... Boys typical toys: http://cf067b.medialib.glogster.com/media/5e/5e59e3fc4e4be00b7415e9f94a7863acba5d7a632781c7583c07a635c3d612a4/toys-for-boys.jpg http://cf067b.medialib.glogster.com/media/5e/5e59e3fc4e4be00... http://themamareport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/transformers-action-figures.jpg http://themamareport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/transfor... http://www.mommyq.com/wp-content/uploads/Track.jpg http://www.mommyq.com/wp-content/uploads/Track.jpg (Also, LOL @ the photoshopped-in black boy for diversity.)

newnewnew 13y ago
> "Why are we so obsessed with finding genetic reasons to explain thinking differences in gender(or race) when there are obvious social/cultural pressures?" Isn't that another way of saying "Why do people care about science, when its findings might make us uncomfortable? And besides, my ideology already tells me how the world works."
- smtddr 13y ago
  I knew you'd comment on this. You seem to show up on all stories about gender & race differences. Anyways, note the part where I say "I'd feel better about these studies if they could somehow account for these outside influences." Without accounting for those factors, these studies are at best 50/50. EDIT: I also knew the downvote-brigade would be right there with you to destroy my reply the moment I submitted it. 3 downvotes in 10 seconds.
  - oddx 13y ago
    > downvote Maybe it because you become personal instead of bringing arguments?
    - yetanotherphd 13y ago
      This. It creates a very unpleasant atmosphere when you comment on someone's posting history in a negative way, which is not relevant to the topic. We should be able to debate a topic without bringing in other people's motivations or character.
  - newnewnew 13y ago
    I didn't downvote you.
- logjam 13y ago
  Oh my. Project much? Your attempt to rephrase his question to try to suit a silly ideology has nothing to do with "science", is merely your own appeal to emotion, and isn't doing a thing to advance the discussion, moldburg. Now, do you have anything at all cogent to say about the obvious cultural and economic forces that create differences?

thenerdfiles 13y ago

Like I said: 10,000 hours for boys, 8,000 hours for girls. But the environment has been colored, offset by slavery and sexual politics. It is inevitable that agents like 'pg' (Paul Graham) must say and show, despite personal capacity toward self-interest.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

logjam 13y ago
Great. Cherry picking at its finest. Were you saying something about "science" down below? > there are large genetically distinct human population groups that correspond ~80% with our notions about race. Oh really? What exactly are "our notions" about race? Who precisely are you referring to as holding "our" notions? And why was it so important for you to try to insert [again] your own everlasting axe-grinding notions about "race" into this particular discussion?
- newnewnew 13y ago
  Fair enough, it is off-topic. Edited

spullara 13y ago

You could probably leave off the "faster" in the headline.

needacig 13y ago

tl;dr More "proof" that men are biologically superior to women.

hackinthebochs 13y ago
How on earth did you get that from the article? Why does difference have to imply an ordering?
- needacig 13y ago
  ``Differences in biology'' are consistently cited as justification for sexist beliefs. (An example of a sexist belief is, ``women are better suited to careers requiring nurturing and communication over logic and leadership.'') You are correct that this article did not imply an ordering in its findings, but given that men dominate higher prestige social and professional positions globally, people are constantly searching for justifications of this that seem ``fair'' to them: biology. It is primarily men who are presidents and scientists and CEOs and leaders of families and religions. Why? Because on average, they're just better at it. Because biology. Or so they say. When small differences are desperately sought out, and vast similarities are ignored, all to justify what is arguably an inequitable situation, I'm wary. Scientific sexism and scientific racism are not new. The findings of the scientific process are not immune from the bigotries of its practitioners and the era in which they live. Science is a process, not an outcome.
  - orangecat 13y ago
    ``Differences in biology'' are consistently cited as justification for sexist beliefs. And Darwinian evolution has been cited as justification for letting the poor starve. So what? The findings of the scientific process are not immune from the bigotries of its practitioners and the era in which they live. Science is a process, not an outcome. So anyone studying differences between men and women is motivated by a desire to oppress women and maintain the patriarchy?
    - needacig 13y ago

dtf 13y ago

Note that only the headline says "may explain why girls mature faster". Note the use of "may". Yet within days, this research becomes: "Girls really do mature quicker than boys, scientists find" - The Telegraph "Why Girls’ Brains Mature Faster Than Boys' Brains" - Time "Science proves girls do mature faster than boys" - San Francisco Chronicle There was a similar charade a few weeks back when a PNAS paper about differences in the connections between male and female subjects (concluding that males connected more strongly front to back, females more strongly laterally) turned into hundreds of front-page stories about women being better at multitasking and men better at map reading, before being roundly denounced as quite shoddy research. By then of course, the meme has stuck, because we love having our prejudices confirmed. The main difference between male and female brains is that male brains tend to be bigger: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2013/09/25/are-mens-brains-just-bigger/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2013/09/25/ar...

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- dtf 13y ago
  I just want to stress I have no problem with the research presented here, just with the way it is presented - "sexed up", as it were - on the way to the media.
apricot7 13y ago
There was a similar charade a few weeks back when a PNAS paper about differences in the connections between male and female subjects (concluding that males connected more strongly front to back, females more strongly laterally) [...] roundly denounced as quite shoddy research It wasn't roundly denounced as shoddy research, unless you're referring to certain groups being angry with the study. Posts on Jezebel, Feministe and Tumblr were angry, and they tried to spin the results inaccurately. They claimed that the results indicated that female brains were different because of culture, and they claimed we should stop acting like there are innate non-physical differences between men and women. Unfortunately for them, the differences in brain chemistry became pronounced not during the brain's most plastic years, but rapidly during puberty during the flood of sex hormones. And the study made that clear. I don't know why the notion of different brain chemistry is so threatening to some groups, but it is what it is.

ps4fanboy 13y ago

What a sexist article, everyone knows men and women are exactly the same.