5 ms·

Trent Reznor: What to do as a new/unknown artist

150 points by KC8ZKF 17y ago

mahmud 17y ago
My girlfriend is a musician and my one wish from the startup community working in the music scene is to kill both "management" and the bookies. If anybody is working on democratizing event organization, marketing and ticket sales, you have our full support, participation and feedback. Ask away and I/she will tell you.
- dflock 17y ago
  I'm not an expert, but these things come to mind: Tickets: http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002975.php http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002975.php http://www.ticketleap.com/ http://www.ticketleap.com/ Organisation & Marketing: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/ http://upcoming.yahoo.com/ Public Google Calendar Your blog & your website
- leviathant 17y ago
  You should check out Martin Atkin's book "Tour Smart." It should be mandatory reading for anyone involved in live music in just about any capacity. Seriously, a really, really good read, something I wish I had when I was still gigging.
- steveklabnik 17y ago
  There's a local (to me) startup called ShowClix that's trying to do some cool things with ticketing. http://www.showclix.com/ http://www.showclix.com/
- pageman 17y ago
  try Derek Sivers' http://sivers.org/muckwork http://sivers.org/muckwork and to push your music extra-fast to iTunes for FREE, try WaTunes (disclaimer, used to be their evangelist), for physical distro - go cdbaby.com
ktharavaad 17y ago
His advice on - giving music out for free at un-DRMed format in exchange for email - and using the email address to sell premium goods such as signed personal items..etc sounds remarkably like the advice in the Seth godin's "Permission Marketting" book.
- Xichekolas 17y ago
  As a NIN customer, I can attest this works. I have always been a fan of NIN, but not enough of one to check the website and keep up with tours and stuff. I'd occassionally catch a show and generally found out about new albums through my friends. Then one of my friends pointed me to the Ghosts release, which I could buy online, DRM-free, for $5. I thought this was the greatest thing, so of course I bought it. Then I started getting emails from Trent whenever they released something new or posted new tour dates. The emails were decidedly uncommercial... just plain text, as if he was emailing a group of friends. It's easy to dismiss other weekly emails (ahem Amazon and Borders) because of all the fancy graphics and marketing, but the NIN emails were both infrequent, personal, and very relevant. So far, these emails have led me to buy The Slip, Niggy Tardust, the new Street Sweeper Social Club album, and attend two concerts. I'm definitely more involved as a fan, and love being told when things are happening, rather than having to follow the band's website. I think the trick is not to overdo it. I think most people look at marketing as an activity that has to be constant... a daily/weekly barrage of offers, deals, and news. That's a quick way to get me to unsubscribe. But when I get an email every couple months from Trent telling me a new album is up for $5 (or more if you want signatures and stuff), or new tour dates are posted, I'm glad to know.
rivo 17y ago
This is the most spot-on "tutorial" for today's musicians I've read so far. As a musician (formerly on a major label) with a hacker background, I agree with every single word. It is still hard for musicians, however, to give away their music for free, especially if money was spent producing it. My band has been working the way described here for 3-4 years now. We're not famous but we have our fan base and we know there are people willing to pay for stuff. It's not enough to cover our living expenses but maybe we'll get there one day. Next stop: ramen-profitable... Still, as the only Internet-savvy member in the band, it's hard to explain this to my band mates. E.g. we get lots of requests from dummers for our songs without the drum tracks so they could play along. They'd pay much more than for a regular album. And they'd upload videos to YouTube which would be free promotion for us. But I cannot get our drummer to agree to releasing these versions. Most musicians don't get it. Yet.
- Xichekolas 17y ago
  You should link your band's site in your profile. I read your comment and thought "hey, might as well see if they are any good", but then you didn't give a link or even mention the band's name... so I couldn't.
  - dag 17y ago
    Yeah, what's the band?
  - mahmud 17y ago
    Musicians might not like to be seen talking "business". It's just impolite.
    - dag 17y ago
      I, as a musician, think you're making too much of this. If he's worried about someone finding this when reading about the band he could obfuscate (rot13, etc) the name.
    - Xichekolas 17y ago
      Which is why I said just put it in the profile. He doesn't have to beat us over the head with his band's name, but surely there is no taboo against casually dropping it when it's the subject of the conversation.
jasonlbaptiste 17y ago
" The role of an independent musician these days requires a mastery of first hand use of these tools. If you don't get it - find someone who does to do this for you." Opportunity to be had being the "someone" who does this for artists?
dan_the_welder 17y ago
"Remove all Flash from your website. Remove all stupid intros and load-times. MAKE IT SIMPLE TO NAVIGATE AND EASY TO FIND AND HEAR MUSIC (but don't autoplay)" Brilliant. All websites should adhere to this advice. I despise autoplay anything. It's the Internet not Television.
- abesapien 17y ago
  I don't agree with the "Remove all flash from your website suggestion". If you look at Pandora, Lala.com, Amazon, YouTube. They all use swf format as an easy way to deliver the music and video. It's not without drawbacks however, but you will have a good idea of what the users experience will be when they recieve the media. It is probably not a bad idea to have multiple ways of viewing the media IMHO. With the user having the option to get the file itself alongside the sandbox be it Flash, Java , etc. I don't think the Iphone supports flash right now though.
  - DanHulton 17y ago
    I'm pretty sure he's referring to Flash as navigation. Leaving Flash in to play songs makes perfect sense, but having those ridiculous all-flash front pages and navigation "flash app" is retarded and should rightly be abolished.
trezor 17y ago
Easily summed up as the the opposite of what the rest of the music industry is doing with an emphasis on being realistic all the way. I'm still wondering how much more time it will take before the realize they are on the wrong track and reverses on their actions and listens to their actual customers.

150 points by KC8ZKF 17y ago

My girlfriend is a musician and my one wish from the startup community working in the music scene is to kill both "management" and the bookies. If anybody is working on democratizing event organization, marketing and ticket sales, you have our full support, participation and feedback. Ask away and I/she will tell you.

dflock 17y ago
I'm not an expert, but these things come to mind: Tickets: http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002975.php http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/002975.php http://www.ticketleap.com/ http://www.ticketleap.com/ Organisation & Marketing: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/ http://upcoming.yahoo.com/ Public Google Calendar Your blog & your website
leviathant 17y ago
You should check out Martin Atkin's book "Tour Smart." It should be mandatory reading for anyone involved in live music in just about any capacity. Seriously, a really, really good read, something I wish I had when I was still gigging.
steveklabnik 17y ago
There's a local (to me) startup called ShowClix that's trying to do some cool things with ticketing. http://www.showclix.com/ http://www.showclix.com/
pageman 17y ago
try Derek Sivers' http://sivers.org/muckwork http://sivers.org/muckwork and to push your music extra-fast to iTunes for FREE, try WaTunes (disclaimer, used to be their evangelist), for physical distro - go cdbaby.com

ktharavaad 17y ago

His advice on - giving music out for free at un-DRMed format in exchange for email - and using the email address to sell premium goods such as signed personal items..etc sounds remarkably like the advice in the Seth godin's "Permission Marketting" book.

Xichekolas 17y ago
As a NIN customer, I can attest this works. I have always been a fan of NIN, but not enough of one to check the website and keep up with tours and stuff. I'd occassionally catch a show and generally found out about new albums through my friends. Then one of my friends pointed me to the Ghosts release, which I could buy online, DRM-free, for $5. I thought this was the greatest thing, so of course I bought it. Then I started getting emails from Trent whenever they released something new or posted new tour dates. The emails were decidedly uncommercial... just plain text, as if he was emailing a group of friends. It's easy to dismiss other weekly emails (ahem Amazon and Borders) because of all the fancy graphics and marketing, but the NIN emails were both infrequent, personal, and very relevant. So far, these emails have led me to buy The Slip, Niggy Tardust, the new Street Sweeper Social Club album, and attend two concerts. I'm definitely more involved as a fan, and love being told when things are happening, rather than having to follow the band's website. I think the trick is not to overdo it. I think most people look at marketing as an activity that has to be constant... a daily/weekly barrage of offers, deals, and news. That's a quick way to get me to unsubscribe. But when I get an email every couple months from Trent telling me a new album is up for $5 (or more if you want signatures and stuff), or new tour dates are posted, I'm glad to know.

rivo 17y ago

This is the most spot-on "tutorial" for today's musicians I've read so far. As a musician (formerly on a major label) with a hacker background, I agree with every single word. It is still hard for musicians, however, to give away their music for free, especially if money was spent producing it. My band has been working the way described here for 3-4 years now. We're not famous but we have our fan base and we know there are people willing to pay for stuff. It's not enough to cover our living expenses but maybe we'll get there one day. Next stop: ramen-profitable... Still, as the only Internet-savvy member in the band, it's hard to explain this to my band mates. E.g. we get lots of requests from dummers for our songs without the drum tracks so they could play along. They'd pay much more than for a regular album. And they'd upload videos to YouTube which would be free promotion for us. But I cannot get our drummer to agree to releasing these versions. Most musicians don't get it. Yet.

Xichekolas 17y ago
You should link your band's site in your profile. I read your comment and thought "hey, might as well see if they are any good", but then you didn't give a link or even mention the band's name... so I couldn't.
- dag 17y ago
  Yeah, what's the band?
- mahmud 17y ago
  Musicians might not like to be seen talking "business". It's just impolite.
  - dag 17y ago
    I, as a musician, think you're making too much of this. If he's worried about someone finding this when reading about the band he could obfuscate (rot13, etc) the name.
  - Xichekolas 17y ago
    Which is why I said just put it in the profile. He doesn't have to beat us over the head with his band's name, but surely there is no taboo against casually dropping it when it's the subject of the conversation.

jasonlbaptiste 17y ago

" The role of an independent musician these days requires a mastery of first hand use of these tools. If you don't get it - find someone who does to do this for you." Opportunity to be had being the "someone" who does this for artists?

dan_the_welder 17y ago

"Remove all Flash from your website. Remove all stupid intros and load-times. MAKE IT SIMPLE TO NAVIGATE AND EASY TO FIND AND HEAR MUSIC (but don't autoplay)" Brilliant. All websites should adhere to this advice. I despise autoplay anything. It's the Internet not Television.

abesapien 17y ago
I don't agree with the "Remove all flash from your website suggestion". If you look at Pandora, Lala.com, Amazon, YouTube. They all use swf format as an easy way to deliver the music and video. It's not without drawbacks however, but you will have a good idea of what the users experience will be when they recieve the media. It is probably not a bad idea to have multiple ways of viewing the media IMHO. With the user having the option to get the file itself alongside the sandbox be it Flash, Java , etc. I don't think the Iphone supports flash right now though.
- DanHulton 17y ago
  I'm pretty sure he's referring to Flash as navigation. Leaving Flash in to play songs makes perfect sense, but having those ridiculous all-flash front pages and navigation "flash app" is retarded and should rightly be abolished.

trezor 17y ago

Easily summed up as the the opposite of what the rest of the music industry is doing with an emphasis on being realistic all the way. I'm still wondering how much more time it will take before the realize they are on the wrong track and reverses on their actions and listens to their actual customers.