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> Linux has been a very viable desktop for over a decade. I've been using Linux regularly for the past half decade and daily for the past year as a PC (as oppo

> Linux has been a very viable desktop for over a decade. I've been using Linux regularly for the past half decade and daily for the past year as a PC (as opposed to as a development and deployment target for 12 years). No, it's not viable. Not when the competition is Windows and OS X. I'd explain why, but it'd devolve into a huge rant about poor UX, drivers, audio services, file system snafus, grub upgrades gone wrong, bad advice on forums compounding problems, all of which get brought up ad nauseum in any Linux thread. Linux is very good as a server, but that in no way translates into being a good PC. And no, Chromebooks are not a desktop, they're "browser appliances".

pessimizer 13y ago
The Linux desktop has no more difficulties than the MS desktop (which is also endless "poor UX, drivers, audio services, file system snafus, [...] upgrades gone wrong, bad advice on forums compounding problems.") With a billion dollar marketing budget (like either MS, Google, or Apple) and/or a hardware manufacturing company behind it, it would sell. That's not even really a complement to the Linux desktop, it's more a statement about what a billion dollars can do. The quality of the desktops of the members of this oligopoly has a negligible influence on the uptake IMO. The iPod/iTunes pair was one of the functionally worst (but one of the prettiest) products of its category. Android and iPhone have taken nearly a decade to reinvent basic functionality taken for granted on most computers. Doesn't matter.
- throwawaykf03 13y ago
  > The Linux desktop has no more difficulties than the MS desktop (which is also endless "poor UX, drivers, audio services, file system snafus, [...] upgrades gone wrong, bad advice on forums compounding problems.") Not in my experience, at least...I use Windows, Linux, OS X regularly these days, in increasing order of usage, with Linux and OS X being almost equal. On average, Linux has given me more trouble than the other two combined. And there is a billion dollar marketing budget for Linux, and it does sell. Except it's only the kernel that's Linux, and the OS is called Android, and it sells because it has a completely different UX, one that was created with another billion dollars of investment from Google. This unfortunately has no bearing on the quality of the Linux UX on PCs.
aeroevan 13y ago
I, on the other hand, have been using Linux on the desktop/laptop for over a decade and it's worked fine for me. Granted, the last Windows version I used was Windows XP (pre SP 1), but I also got a SantaRosa MacBook several years ago and found OS X's WM to be fairly outdated at the time. That being said, I am seriously considering buying a new MacBook Pro since I need a new laptop with lots of RAM.
keithpeter 13y ago
"I'd explain why, but it'd devolve into a huge rant about poor UX, drivers, audio services, file system snafus, grub upgrades gone wrong, bad advice on forums compounding problems, all of which get brought up ad nauseum in any Linux thread." Earth it all on a Web page somewhere and post a link back here. I'd be interested, with the exception of the bad advice on forums bit.
fit2rule 13y ago
Your anecdote is as good as mine. I've had a viable Linux desktop for 15 years. I don't have driver problems, my machine has been settled and stable and working productively with very, very little effort on my part. I use it every day without even thinking about any issue whatsoever - and I have plenty of interesting hardware attached - two USB hubs, Firewire busses, multiple monitors with 3D acceleration, nvidia cards, and so on.. I've also had a viable Linux DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) for about 12 of those years (another machine). It kicks as much as as any OSX DAW ever did, and I have sources for everything, which OSX doesn't. So its nice if I want to tweak an audio plugin between sessions. I also have multiple Linux servers, countless VM's stored in various places for various things (compiler farms). I have absolutely no problems with UX, drivers, audio, file system, or grub in any of this. You must have some bad mojo. >And no, Chromebooks are not a desktop, they're "browser appliances". Chromebooks are eating the desktop metaphor for lunch. Cloud, as well. Complaining about the Desktop was a good pitch in the 90's, but if you think it matters - at all - now, then you're really not being rational.
- throwawaykf03 13y ago
  > Your anecdote is as good as mine. Agreed, but as long as anecdotes like mine abound (see also: other comments in this thread, or on any Linux thread anywhere in general), I think Linux on the PC will go nowhere. As others have mentioned, this is often the fault of vendors and drivers that Linux can do little about, but that's not going to excuse it for most users. > Chromebooks are eating the desktop metaphor for lunch. I think it's too early to call that right now, especially based on some really questionable statistics. There is some potential for Chromebooks, but in the long run tablets will probably prevail in that space.
  - fit2rule 13y ago
    I'm seeing far more success stories for Linux adoption than failures. If, as you say, anecdotes like yours abound, then there would hardly be any Linux use at all. However, fortunately, your situation is not as common as you think - and in fact the successes are far, far more common. Or else we wouldn't have the subject to discuss: it would have festered, already. But, it didn't fester, because the fact is: Linux works great on the Desktop. Really, really great. And it offers far more powerful features than the competition. So that is why its thriving. The days of 'drivers being better on Windows' are over, by the way.
Mikeb85 13y ago
Chrome OS is a Gentoo-based distro. And they are quite capable. If you want the traditional Linux tools, put it in developer mode....

pessimizer 13y ago

The Linux desktop has no more difficulties than the MS desktop (which is also endless "poor UX, drivers, audio services, file system snafus, [...] upgrades gone wrong, bad advice on forums compounding problems.") With a billion dollar marketing budget (like either MS, Google, or Apple) and/or a hardware manufacturing company behind it, it would sell. That's not even really a complement to the Linux desktop, it's more a statement about what a billion dollars can do. The quality of the desktops of the members of this oligopoly has a negligible influence on the uptake IMO. The iPod/iTunes pair was one of the functionally worst (but one of the prettiest) products of its category. Android and iPhone have taken nearly a decade to reinvent basic functionality taken for granted on most computers. Doesn't matter.

throwawaykf03 13y ago
> The Linux desktop has no more difficulties than the MS desktop (which is also endless "poor UX, drivers, audio services, file system snafus, [...] upgrades gone wrong, bad advice on forums compounding problems.") Not in my experience, at least...I use Windows, Linux, OS X regularly these days, in increasing order of usage, with Linux and OS X being almost equal. On average, Linux has given me more trouble than the other two combined. And there is a billion dollar marketing budget for Linux, and it does sell. Except it's only the kernel that's Linux, and the OS is called Android, and it sells because it has a completely different UX, one that was created with another billion dollars of investment from Google. This unfortunately has no bearing on the quality of the Linux UX on PCs.

aeroevan 13y ago

I, on the other hand, have been using Linux on the desktop/laptop for over a decade and it's worked fine for me. Granted, the last Windows version I used was Windows XP (pre SP 1), but I also got a SantaRosa MacBook several years ago and found OS X's WM to be fairly outdated at the time. That being said, I am seriously considering buying a new MacBook Pro since I need a new laptop with lots of RAM.

keithpeter 13y ago

"I'd explain why, but it'd devolve into a huge rant about poor UX, drivers, audio services, file system snafus, grub upgrades gone wrong, bad advice on forums compounding problems, all of which get brought up ad nauseum in any Linux thread." Earth it all on a Web page somewhere and post a link back here. I'd be interested, with the exception of the bad advice on forums bit.

fit2rule 13y ago

Your anecdote is as good as mine. I've had a viable Linux desktop for 15 years. I don't have driver problems, my machine has been settled and stable and working productively with very, very little effort on my part. I use it every day without even thinking about any issue whatsoever - and I have plenty of interesting hardware attached - two USB hubs, Firewire busses, multiple monitors with 3D acceleration, nvidia cards, and so on.. I've also had a viable Linux DAW (Digital Audio Workstation) for about 12 of those years (another machine). It kicks as much as as any OSX DAW ever did, and I have sources for everything, which OSX doesn't. So its nice if I want to tweak an audio plugin between sessions. I also have multiple Linux servers, countless VM's stored in various places for various things (compiler farms). I have absolutely no problems with UX, drivers, audio, file system, or grub in any of this. You must have some bad mojo. >And no, Chromebooks are not a desktop, they're "browser appliances". Chromebooks are eating the desktop metaphor for lunch. Cloud, as well. Complaining about the Desktop was a good pitch in the 90's, but if you think it matters - at all - now, then you're really not being rational.

throwawaykf03 13y ago
> Your anecdote is as good as mine. Agreed, but as long as anecdotes like mine abound (see also: other comments in this thread, or on any Linux thread anywhere in general), I think Linux on the PC will go nowhere. As others have mentioned, this is often the fault of vendors and drivers that Linux can do little about, but that's not going to excuse it for most users. > Chromebooks are eating the desktop metaphor for lunch. I think it's too early to call that right now, especially based on some really questionable statistics. There is some potential for Chromebooks, but in the long run tablets will probably prevail in that space.
- fit2rule 13y ago
  I'm seeing far more success stories for Linux adoption than failures. If, as you say, anecdotes like yours abound, then there would hardly be any Linux use at all. However, fortunately, your situation is not as common as you think - and in fact the successes are far, far more common. Or else we wouldn't have the subject to discuss: it would have festered, already. But, it didn't fester, because the fact is: Linux works great on the Desktop. Really, really great. And it offers far more powerful features than the competition. So that is why its thriving. The days of 'drivers being better on Windows' are over, by the way.

Mikeb85 13y ago

Chrome OS is a Gentoo-based distro. And they are quite capable. If you want the traditional Linux tools, put it in developer mode....