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Here's the thing: Every country that CAN collect data IS collecting data. If they are manufacturing anything that can be hacked to collect data and they can f

Here's the thing: Every country that CAN collect data IS collecting data. If they are manufacturing anything that can be hacked to collect data and they can feasibly get away with it (read: there is no independent oversight), you can bet it is being done. Germany is no different than France is no different from the US is no different than China etc. etc. The only difference is they haven't had their Snowdens come out of the woodwork yet. I can guarantee the US intelligence apparatus is right now trying to figure out how to out a few of these foreign programs so that the US does not look quite so bad in comparison without causing a diplomatic meltdown.

fforw 13y ago
I think it's deluded to expect any country to come even close to what the US is doing except maybe China. The budgets of all are not anywhere high enough to pull such a thing off. The US has moved on a dark and lonely path after 9/11.. Not only in espionage, but also in remote killings, illegal imprisonment and torture. To say others do just the same seems deluded.
- bananacurve 13y ago
  Europe outsources a good deal of their defense and intelligence to the US, and for good reason, why spend money on redundant systems when the West is working together. http://cphpost.dk/news/denmark-is-one-of-the-nsas-9-eyes.7611.html http://cphpost.dk/news/denmark-is-one-of-the-nsas-9-eyes.761...
- clavalle 13y ago
  I can agree with your point that nobody quite reaches the scale of the US. I mean, I am not suggesting Uganda has huge data warehousing and analysis compounds or anything absurd like that. But I do suggest that every country is doing what they are capable. And countries like Japan, China, UK, Israel, Germany, Russia etc. are capable of quite a lot.
aagha 13y ago
"Germany is no different than France is no different from the US is no different than China etc. etc" What evidence do you have of this? I'm highly suspicious of the fact that the German and French governments are spying on their populace as widely as the US government is on its.

fforw 13y ago

I think it's deluded to expect any country to come even close to what the US is doing except maybe China. The budgets of all are not anywhere high enough to pull such a thing off. The US has moved on a dark and lonely path after 9/11.. Not only in espionage, but also in remote killings, illegal imprisonment and torture. To say others do just the same seems deluded.

bananacurve 13y ago
Europe outsources a good deal of their defense and intelligence to the US, and for good reason, why spend money on redundant systems when the West is working together. http://cphpost.dk/news/denmark-is-one-of-the-nsas-9-eyes.7611.html http://cphpost.dk/news/denmark-is-one-of-the-nsas-9-eyes.761...
clavalle 13y ago
I can agree with your point that nobody quite reaches the scale of the US. I mean, I am not suggesting Uganda has huge data warehousing and analysis compounds or anything absurd like that. But I do suggest that every country is doing what they are capable. And countries like Japan, China, UK, Israel, Germany, Russia etc. are capable of quite a lot.

aagha 13y ago

"Germany is no different than France is no different from the US is no different than China etc. etc" What evidence do you have of this? I'm highly suspicious of the fact that the German and French governments are spying on their populace as widely as the US government is on its.