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You make a great point about data leaking out. My position isn't that I don't care about privacy. It's that in the modern age, with so much information kept a

You make a great point about data leaking out. My position isn't that I don't care about privacy. It's that in the modern age, with so much information kept about people in corporate and government databases, we're necessarily talking about mitigation rather than a pure ideal of full privacy. I assume the NSA can access my records with the IRS or my bank anytime they wish, even if they were prevented by law from tapping my iPhone. This has been the case for decades no doubt. At this point in time, beyond that, they can break into an advertising agency database if they wish and find out about all of my click behavior and location information. In the battles I choose to take on, rolling back an NSA iPhone compromise is an interesting idea, but it is less a priority than other battles, such as protecting dissidents in oppressive countries (which is also a relevant contrast to the point I first made, as has been mentioned elsewhere), and, yes, preventing terrorist attacks. I think anyone is allowed the prerogative to prioritize their battles. I also do not think the world would be a safer or better place without intelligence gathering. If I permit that much, now we're talking about degrees rather than absolutes, and we're arguing about where to draw the line.

Nursie 13y ago
>> If I permit that much, now we're talking about degrees rather than absolutes, and we're arguing about where to draw the line. We're always talking about where to draw the line, in basically everything worth debating about, ever. There are very few absolutes in life and I think that opting out of the discussion by saying "Well, we're just deciding where to put the line" is a total cop-out. Where we put the line is important, and where we place our priorities. "Preventing terrorist attacks" sounds very noble, until you add up all the harm that's been done in pursuit of that goal. And remember - there's no compelling evidence that the NSA mass data-gathering activities have actually prevented any attacks. >> In the battles I choose to take on, rolling back an NSA iPhone compromise is an interesting idea, but it is less a priority than other battles, such as protecting dissidents in oppressive countries (which is also a relevant contrast to the point I first made, as has been mentioned elsewhere) I don't know how you can't see that these are the same thing. The iPhone compromise, if such exists, further endangers dissidents in oppressive countries, not to mention dissidents in countries we don't consider overtly oppressive, like our own.
- allochthon 13y ago
  The iPhone compromise, if such exists, further endangers dissidents in oppressive countries I've implicitly acknowledged this point.

Nursie 13y ago

>> If I permit that much, now we're talking about degrees rather than absolutes, and we're arguing about where to draw the line. We're always talking about where to draw the line, in basically everything worth debating about, ever. There are very few absolutes in life and I think that opting out of the discussion by saying "Well, we're just deciding where to put the line" is a total cop-out. Where we put the line is important, and where we place our priorities. "Preventing terrorist attacks" sounds very noble, until you add up all the harm that's been done in pursuit of that goal. And remember - there's no compelling evidence that the NSA mass data-gathering activities have actually prevented any attacks. >> In the battles I choose to take on, rolling back an NSA iPhone compromise is an interesting idea, but it is less a priority than other battles, such as protecting dissidents in oppressive countries (which is also a relevant contrast to the point I first made, as has been mentioned elsewhere) I don't know how you can't see that these are the same thing. The iPhone compromise, if such exists, further endangers dissidents in oppressive countries, not to mention dissidents in countries we don't consider overtly oppressive, like our own.

allochthon 13y ago
The iPhone compromise, if such exists, further endangers dissidents in oppressive countries I've implicitly acknowledged this point.