4 ms·

I'm slighly confused by the article's premise ("2014 will be the Content’s year") and it mentioning tools such as Wix, Squarespace, or even Macaw, who can't be

by bbx 13y ago

I'm slighly confused by the article's premise ("2014 will be the Content’s year") and it mentioning tools such as Wix, Squarespace, or even Macaw, who can't be considered as CMS but rather complete website builders. Apart from its templating system and its vibrant community, one of WordPress' strengths is sticking to an admin interface that is actually focused on content: simple form elements and a decent WYSIWYG. Drag & drop and in-place editing are technically impressive but don't belong in a CMS: I don't see editors and website owners using it on daily basis to update and manage their content.

oneeyedpigeon 13y ago
I think the biggest hurdle we still face when it comes to online publishing is the clash between WYSIWYG and structured markup. Editors, in my experience, don't like working with structured content. But the web is not WYSIWYG. Tools like markdown attempt a compromise, but are still not suitable for many non-technical editors. Do we need a mind-shift, or a new piece of technology to solve this?
- rartichoke 13y ago
  Yeah this is the main problem but I don't think it's really fixable in the near future. There's 3 types of content: - Arbitrary written content This is where markdown shines and IMO completely solves content creation. - Arbitrary written content with mixed in assets Nothing works here. Ever try floating some text to the right of an image when you don't have access to CSS or the raw html because we have to assume the content creator has no technical knowledge. Even wordpress fails horribly at this but it's such a common thing you want to do. - Structured content that has clear properties This is pretty easy to design a nice UI for because it's no longer "anything". For example a todo item or a photo that belongs to a gallery. All you have to do in this case is create a form field for each property. It's something a non-technical person could do.
  - bbx 13y ago
    - Arbitrary written content with mixed in assets Nothing works here. You're right. Offering a simple way for a non-technical user to manage (locally) his layout is the challenge of most WYSIWYG. I don't use Medium but was quite impressed by this quick demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO8hysXMfvQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO8hysXMfvQ Check out around 2:00 how images are inserted within the text. The interface works because it offers only 3-4 possibilities: zoomed in/normal size, full width/left float. Also, there are only 2 levels of heading. This limited interface is a great compromise between a content-focused experience, and some layout flexibility.
    - yogo 13y ago
      Yes, limiting the options is a great way to get good, consistent results. The problem crops up when that one user or client wants something different, then want to start making everything unique, then it's back to the same problem. Content management to me should be about editing the content with styling and layout done automatically, but in the real world I guess people want to be creative even when they are not designers.
    - rartichoke 13y ago
      The demo looks good but look how much fiddling he had to do to get the images the way he wanted them at certain points. There are so many little quirks that you can't really solve intuitively, you end up having to brute force a solution every time. He even dealt with a number of non-image quirks and he probably coded the editor. Like when the paragraph and header were both bolded and he had to go back and fix it. Medium is also highly targeted to blog posts too. A lot of non-technical users somehow want the ability to edit the content on the pages of their web site that might have fairly complicated markup/css to get the desired result.
      - X4 13y ago
        You can solve the fiddling by replacing the whole UI with markdown. Oh, how will he push images to his liking then? Easy: {{image: cat2.jpg, left}} Ok. and howto make it fit the page and baseline without stretching out of the aspect ratio? {{image: cat2.jpg, fit}} Make a button for that like the Left,Centered,Right aligned text buttons and you're done. Even better remove the button and make the whole shit context sensitive, so that after dragging a picture you can do actions on it without having to mess with drag&drop. People don't get drag&drop, really, just trust me here. Most people aren't as aware as you about drag&drop and it doesn't always work too. Buttons help. But yeah TinyMCE is DEAD.

by bbx 13y ago

oneeyedpigeon 13y ago

I think the biggest hurdle we still face when it comes to online publishing is the clash between WYSIWYG and structured markup. Editors, in my experience, don't like working with structured content. But the web is not WYSIWYG. Tools like markdown attempt a compromise, but are still not suitable for many non-technical editors. Do we need a mind-shift, or a new piece of technology to solve this?

rartichoke 13y ago
Yeah this is the main problem but I don't think it's really fixable in the near future. There's 3 types of content: - Arbitrary written content This is where markdown shines and IMO completely solves content creation. - Arbitrary written content with mixed in assets Nothing works here. Ever try floating some text to the right of an image when you don't have access to CSS or the raw html because we have to assume the content creator has no technical knowledge. Even wordpress fails horribly at this but it's such a common thing you want to do. - Structured content that has clear properties This is pretty easy to design a nice UI for because it's no longer "anything". For example a todo item or a photo that belongs to a gallery. All you have to do in this case is create a form field for each property. It's something a non-technical person could do.
- bbx 13y ago
  - Arbitrary written content with mixed in assets Nothing works here. You're right. Offering a simple way for a non-technical user to manage (locally) his layout is the challenge of most WYSIWYG. I don't use Medium but was quite impressed by this quick demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO8hysXMfvQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO8hysXMfvQ Check out around 2:00 how images are inserted within the text. The interface works because it offers only 3-4 possibilities: zoomed in/normal size, full width/left float. Also, there are only 2 levels of heading. This limited interface is a great compromise between a content-focused experience, and some layout flexibility.
  - yogo 13y ago
    Yes, limiting the options is a great way to get good, consistent results. The problem crops up when that one user or client wants something different, then want to start making everything unique, then it's back to the same problem. Content management to me should be about editing the content with styling and layout done automatically, but in the real world I guess people want to be creative even when they are not designers.
  - rartichoke 13y ago
    The demo looks good but look how much fiddling he had to do to get the images the way he wanted them at certain points. There are so many little quirks that you can't really solve intuitively, you end up having to brute force a solution every time. He even dealt with a number of non-image quirks and he probably coded the editor. Like when the paragraph and header were both bolded and he had to go back and fix it. Medium is also highly targeted to blog posts too. A lot of non-technical users somehow want the ability to edit the content on the pages of their web site that might have fairly complicated markup/css to get the desired result.
    - X4 13y ago
      You can solve the fiddling by replacing the whole UI with markdown. Oh, how will he push images to his liking then? Easy: {{image: cat2.jpg, left}} Ok. and howto make it fit the page and baseline without stretching out of the aspect ratio? {{image: cat2.jpg, fit}} Make a button for that like the Left,Centered,Right aligned text buttons and you're done. Even better remove the button and make the whole shit context sensitive, so that after dragging a picture you can do actions on it without having to mess with drag&drop. People don't get drag&drop, really, just trust me here. Most people aren't as aware as you about drag&drop and it doesn't always work too. Buttons help. But yeah TinyMCE is DEAD.