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I really think you are misinterpreting what pg said, and I say that as a card-carrying equal opportunity feminist (you can check my HN comment history for proof

I really think you are misinterpreting what pg said, and I say that as a card-carrying equal opportunity feminist (you can check my HN comment history for proof). He is not saying that women should be not encouraged, he is saying that encouraging women at ycombinator application time is not the solution, and that the solution needs to be applied earlier, because a prerequisite of an ycombinator founder is that they be a hacker, and a hacker needs ten years experience. It's like getting upset that there are no 5'2 guys playing in the NBA. Although height is not a job requirement, if you don't have it it is highly unlikely that you will get the job, unless you can demonstrate that you have other skills to make up for height (speed, highly accurate shooting, and a 5' vertical jump for example). To bring the analogy back to ycombinator, I'm pretty confident that a woman that shows up with only 6 months experience hacking, but she already has a decent chunk of her product built, that the ycombinator crew will consider her application very seriously, because she would have already demonstrated that her lack if experience was not a handicap to her hacking.

abalone 13y ago
So women applying to YC is analogous to short people playing in the NBA. Where did you get your feminist card from again? The problem with pg's statement, which I quoted directly, is that he blames 13 year old girls and middle schools and gives industry a pass. We're already non-discriminating and self-selecting. The problem is getting girls into code, and god knows how to do that. Parents and teachers might have a response to that. Where are the female hacker role models for the 13 year old girls to look up to? That's one of the proactive things industry can do. Shine the spotlight on positive role models. Counteract brogrammer culture at conferences and in companies, too. That requires active intervention, not just an open door policy. And that was the whole question he was responding to -- not just whether we're actively discriminating against women, but whether there's something more proactive we should be doing. Just pointing his finger up the line and saying "it's their fault" is kind of disappointing.
- cafard 13y ago
  a. Need there be a cause for blame, at all? b. I know a certain number of woman who were 13 roughly 10 years ago. None is now working in programming, or that I know looking to start a company. Several are in the technically demanding field of architecture. One is an RN, which requires a good deal of intelligence. All seem reasonably happy with their choices. c. For it may be hard to see in the world of HN, but programming, let alone programming as founder of a startup, is not the be-all and end-all of vocations.
bradleyland 13y ago
> It's like getting upset that there are no 5'2 guys playing in the NBA. This is why I try to avoid reasoning by analogy. Every analogy is flawed, but some end up making the wrong point entirely. Height is a physical attribute that cannot be influenced (without questionably unethical means) from any age. A better analogy would be someone picking up a basketball for the first time at 25 and expecting to play at an NBA level. I agree with everything else you said though.

abalone 13y ago

So women applying to YC is analogous to short people playing in the NBA. Where did you get your feminist card from again? The problem with pg's statement, which I quoted directly, is that he blames 13 year old girls and middle schools and gives industry a pass. We're already non-discriminating and self-selecting. The problem is getting girls into code, and god knows how to do that. Parents and teachers might have a response to that. Where are the female hacker role models for the 13 year old girls to look up to? That's one of the proactive things industry can do. Shine the spotlight on positive role models. Counteract brogrammer culture at conferences and in companies, too. That requires active intervention, not just an open door policy. And that was the whole question he was responding to -- not just whether we're actively discriminating against women, but whether there's something more proactive we should be doing. Just pointing his finger up the line and saying "it's their fault" is kind of disappointing.

cafard 13y ago
a. Need there be a cause for blame, at all? b. I know a certain number of woman who were 13 roughly 10 years ago. None is now working in programming, or that I know looking to start a company. Several are in the technically demanding field of architecture. One is an RN, which requires a good deal of intelligence. All seem reasonably happy with their choices. c. For it may be hard to see in the world of HN, but programming, let alone programming as founder of a startup, is not the be-all and end-all of vocations.

bradleyland 13y ago

> It's like getting upset that there are no 5'2 guys playing in the NBA. This is why I try to avoid reasoning by analogy. Every analogy is flawed, but some end up making the wrong point entirely. Height is a physical attribute that cannot be influenced (without questionably unethical means) from any age. A better analogy would be someone picking up a basketball for the first time at 25 and expecting to play at an NBA level. I agree with everything else you said though.