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Why do we keep excusing people from having a basic mechanism to prove who they say they are? Given that bored teenagers in search of beer can easily forge IDs,

Why do we keep excusing people from having a basic mechanism to prove who they say they are? Given that bored teenagers in search of beer can easily forge IDs, what makes you think current photo ID cards are an effective certificate for proving identity? If you cannot handle getting and maintaining an ID maybe one ought not be able to vote because you're just not responsible enough to handle it. See, this notion right here? This is literally unamerican. Americans get to vote. It doesn't matter if you think they're lazy or smell bad or if they don't demonstrate responsibility to your satisfaction: you don't get to decide which citizens can vote. A lot of people have died so that Americans can vote without your approval.

meddlepal 13y ago
I don't think photo ID's are an effective certificate for proving identity. I'd like to see something stronger put into place. I would agree 100% positive identification is likely impossible given current technology but I think we can do a lot better than photo ID. Felon's are restricted from voting and the constitutionality of it has been upheld. We can absolutely restrict who votes. I strongly disagree that such an idea is "un-American".
- MichaelSalib 13y ago
  I don't think photo ID's are an effective certificate for proving identity. So why are we even talking about them? Photo IDs are the solution being discussed here, not some theoretical has-yet-to-be-invented technology that is indistinguishable from magic. You wrote why do we keep excusing people from having a basic mechanism to prove who they say they are? in the context of a mechanism that doesn't do that...so what exactly is the point of introducing a very costly "solution" to a non-existent problem that doesn't actually solve anything?
jack-r-abbit 13y ago
There already is a certain set of barriers to voting, so let's not pretend there isn't. Everyone is free to vote as long as they can handle the barriers. The argument now is how much is too much. Some seem to think proper ID is too much. Others think that is perfectly reasonable. And currently, some form of ID is needed. So the debate goes further as to what is "proper" ID. Is it a state issued ID card? Or is it your water bill?
- MichaelSalib 13y ago
  And currently, some form of ID is needed. That's just not true. I vote without showing any ID at all.
  - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
    Are you saying that during the entire time from registering to vote to the point of voting, you never had to identify yourself? I find that odd. How do they even know who you are?
    - MichaelSalib 13y ago
      I think you should do some research on voting in the US. You can start by looking at web pages like this: http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm
      - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
        Thanks. I clicked on that. And then the "Massachusetts Mail-in Voter Registration form (PDF) – English" link. In the instructions for that PDF form, #7 says: Federal law requires that you provide your driver’s license number to register to vote. If you do not have a current and valid Massachusetts driver's license, you must provide the last four digits of your social security number. If you have neither, you must write “none” in the box. I'm not sure what they do with the mail in forms that mark "none". And then I read the questions on that the page you linked to. I found this one interesting: Do I need to attach identification to my voter registration form? The Answer: Yes, if you are registering to vote for the first time in Massachusetts. Because of a federal law, the Help America Vote Act of 2002 passed by Congress, if you registered to vote by mail on or after January 1, 2003, you will be required to show identification when you vote for the first time in a federal election since registering by mail in 2003, or you can send in a copy of your identification with your voter registration form. Acceptable identification must include your name and the address at which you are registered to vote, for example: a current and valid driver’s license, photo identification, current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check, or other government document showing your name and address. Am I reading this wrong? Because it pretty much sounds like to me that ID is required. Was there some other info I was supposed to find? Edit: I found this Federal Voter Registration form interesting: http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/Documents/Federal%20Voter%20Registration_11-1-13_ENG.pdf http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/Documents/Federal%20Voter%20Regi... If you scroll down beyond the form, it gives a breakdown for each state what is required for Box #6 (which is where the form asks for your ID Number). Seems a lot are asking for ID of some sort. Good info. Thanks for suggesting I do more research.

meddlepal 13y ago

I don't think photo ID's are an effective certificate for proving identity. I'd like to see something stronger put into place. I would agree 100% positive identification is likely impossible given current technology but I think we can do a lot better than photo ID. Felon's are restricted from voting and the constitutionality of it has been upheld. We can absolutely restrict who votes. I strongly disagree that such an idea is "un-American".

MichaelSalib 13y ago
I don't think photo ID's are an effective certificate for proving identity. So why are we even talking about them? Photo IDs are the solution being discussed here, not some theoretical has-yet-to-be-invented technology that is indistinguishable from magic. You wrote why do we keep excusing people from having a basic mechanism to prove who they say they are? in the context of a mechanism that doesn't do that...so what exactly is the point of introducing a very costly "solution" to a non-existent problem that doesn't actually solve anything?

jack-r-abbit 13y ago

There already is a certain set of barriers to voting, so let's not pretend there isn't. Everyone is free to vote as long as they can handle the barriers. The argument now is how much is too much. Some seem to think proper ID is too much. Others think that is perfectly reasonable. And currently, some form of ID is needed. So the debate goes further as to what is "proper" ID. Is it a state issued ID card? Or is it your water bill?

MichaelSalib 13y ago
And currently, some form of ID is needed. That's just not true. I vote without showing any ID at all.
- jack-r-abbit 13y ago
  Are you saying that during the entire time from registering to vote to the point of voting, you never had to identify yourself? I find that odd. How do they even know who you are?
  - MichaelSalib 13y ago
    I think you should do some research on voting in the US. You can start by looking at web pages like this: http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm
    - jack-r-abbit 13y ago
      Thanks. I clicked on that. And then the "Massachusetts Mail-in Voter Registration form (PDF) – English" link. In the instructions for that PDF form, #7 says: Federal law requires that you provide your driver’s license number to register to vote. If you do not have a current and valid Massachusetts driver's license, you must provide the last four digits of your social security number. If you have neither, you must write “none” in the box. I'm not sure what they do with the mail in forms that mark "none". And then I read the questions on that the page you linked to. I found this one interesting: Do I need to attach identification to my voter registration form? The Answer: Yes, if you are registering to vote for the first time in Massachusetts. Because of a federal law, the Help America Vote Act of 2002 passed by Congress, if you registered to vote by mail on or after January 1, 2003, you will be required to show identification when you vote for the first time in a federal election since registering by mail in 2003, or you can send in a copy of your identification with your voter registration form. Acceptable identification must include your name and the address at which you are registered to vote, for example: a current and valid driver’s license, photo identification, current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check, or other government document showing your name and address. Am I reading this wrong? Because it pretty much sounds like to me that ID is required. Was there some other info I was supposed to find? Edit: I found this Federal Voter Registration form interesting: http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/Documents/Federal%20Voter%20Registration_11-1-13_ENG.pdf http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/Documents/Federal%20Voter%20Regi... If you scroll down beyond the form, it gives a breakdown for each state what is required for Box #6 (which is where the form asks for your ID Number). Seems a lot are asking for ID of some sort. Good info. Thanks for suggesting I do more research.