5 ms·

>>Provided you aren't a sexist/rapist, I see no reason why you need to be walking on eggshells all the time at a place where you spend a large percentage of you

by smtddr 13y ago

>>Provided you aren't a sexist/rapist, I see no reason why you need to be walking on eggshells all the time at a place where you spend a large percentage of your day. It's been my experience that when men feel like they're walking on eggshells around women in the workplace it's because they're normally comfortable making sexists/rape jokes and/or have sexist beliefs. The feeling of eggshell walking is them trying to cover that up. I say this as a guy who has seen other male coworkers' behavior when there are no women around and how difficult it is for them to clean up their act when there is a lady in the room.

jsmthrowaway 13y ago
Or, we're concerned about being misinterpreted and that misinterpretation being escalated instead of discussed with us so we can clear it up. But yeah, it's easier to just label us as sexists that like to joke about rape, right?
- smtddr 13y ago
  That's just an excuse. Why are you more worried that a female coworker will misunderstand you than a male one?
  - jsmthrowaway 13y ago
    I'm not. I'm more worried that people, regardless of gender, will escalate said misunderstanding rather than talk to me about it, which is training I'm receiving from observing these folks on Twitter. I realize now my earlier comments made the unintended implication that I was painting solely women with this brush and that's my bad, and not what I meant. In context with your comment it looks that way but I lament this behavior regardless of gender or creed.
  - Dewie 13y ago
    I can't really imagine a man complaining about (percieved) sexism being taken very seriously. (But maybe we're talking more broadly than about sexism in particular.)
  - Perihelion 13y ago
    I see a LOT more drama surrounding the things that men have said/done. If I were a man I would absolutely be more concerned about my interactions with female coworkers over male ones. Don't take this to mean that I think I can say/do whatever I want in this industry on account of being female -- no one is bulletproof. It just seems men are vilified more than women when it comes to these sorts of things. Maybe that's just my world view.
    - smtddr 13y ago
      Hmm, so let's see. If this kind of stuff is going on with gender relations, does it exist with race too? Orientation? For the tech-world, I guess a black lesbian would be a triple-concern? I would say that is a problem. Not sure how to fix it, but that's a problem. I personally don't have to change my behavior or speech when a lady is in the room. But then again, I'm probably unique in that... I never, ever use profanity and never make jokes that wouldn't be safe on the Disney channel. I don't know anyone who can claim that besides me. But, I will say compared to my time at at&t... the men there seemed to be less frat-housey than the SV-startup-culture. The men at at&t seemed to be more "gentlemanly", more socially acceptable. SV-startup-culture I think allows the frat-house/bro-grammer attitude to grow thus making it more difficult to the men who are use to that to clean up when a lady is around. At least, that's what I've seen.
      - Perihelion 13y ago
        I'll agree with you partially. This sort of thing is definitely going down based on race/orientation as well, but I see less of that and more men vs women sorts of discussions. It's not just a tech problem either. This stuff is going on all around the world. I don't claim to have solutions to these problems, but I would appreciate it if the public shaming and witch hunts would stop. I'm tired, SV. So very tired. I've never worked at AT&T but I'd wager the same stuff went on. Perhaps you experienced the same sort of thing I did where people assumed you wouldn't appreciate their words/actions and elected to avoid you?
        smtddr 13y ago
Perihelion 13y ago
That hasn't been my experience. After I settled in here people eventually approached me and said they were afraid to talk to me about anything not work-related out of fear that I'd take something the wrong way. I think men are less concerned about their ability to tell rape jokes and more concerned that anything can be blown out of proportion and taken to social media. This sort of stuff can ruin lives and I think THAT is why many men walk on eggshells. In this case, people went after pg without even hearing his side of things, and a quick browse of Twitter leads me to believe that even though he's stated his side of things people are still unwilling to change their stance on this. Instead, they'd rather be pissed off and label him as part of the problem. In some cases what you said is probably true, but based on what I've seen they seem to be a minority. I don't think your average person honestly thinks that rape is okay, even if they find humor in rape jokes.
crassus 13y ago
> "It's been my experience that when men feel like they're walking on eggshells around women in the workplace it's because they're normally comfortable making sexists/rape jokes and/or have sexist beliefs." translated - "If you're afraid of being labeled a witch, you're probably a witch."
- Perihelion 13y ago
  I disagree. There's a reason that the term "witch hunt" has the connotation that it does.

by smtddr 13y ago

jsmthrowaway 13y ago

Or, we're concerned about being misinterpreted and that misinterpretation being escalated instead of discussed with us so we can clear it up. But yeah, it's easier to just label us as sexists that like to joke about rape, right?

smtddr 13y ago
That's just an excuse. Why are you more worried that a female coworker will misunderstand you than a male one?
- jsmthrowaway 13y ago
  I'm not. I'm more worried that people, regardless of gender, will escalate said misunderstanding rather than talk to me about it, which is training I'm receiving from observing these folks on Twitter. I realize now my earlier comments made the unintended implication that I was painting solely women with this brush and that's my bad, and not what I meant. In context with your comment it looks that way but I lament this behavior regardless of gender or creed.
- Dewie 13y ago
  I can't really imagine a man complaining about (percieved) sexism being taken very seriously. (But maybe we're talking more broadly than about sexism in particular.)
- Perihelion 13y ago
  I see a LOT more drama surrounding the things that men have said/done. If I were a man I would absolutely be more concerned about my interactions with female coworkers over male ones. Don't take this to mean that I think I can say/do whatever I want in this industry on account of being female -- no one is bulletproof. It just seems men are vilified more than women when it comes to these sorts of things. Maybe that's just my world view.
  - smtddr 13y ago
    Hmm, so let's see. If this kind of stuff is going on with gender relations, does it exist with race too? Orientation? For the tech-world, I guess a black lesbian would be a triple-concern? I would say that is a problem. Not sure how to fix it, but that's a problem. I personally don't have to change my behavior or speech when a lady is in the room. But then again, I'm probably unique in that... I never, ever use profanity and never make jokes that wouldn't be safe on the Disney channel. I don't know anyone who can claim that besides me. But, I will say compared to my time at at&t... the men there seemed to be less frat-housey than the SV-startup-culture. The men at at&t seemed to be more "gentlemanly", more socially acceptable. SV-startup-culture I think allows the frat-house/bro-grammer attitude to grow thus making it more difficult to the men who are use to that to clean up when a lady is around. At least, that's what I've seen.
    - Perihelion 13y ago
      I'll agree with you partially. This sort of thing is definitely going down based on race/orientation as well, but I see less of that and more men vs women sorts of discussions. It's not just a tech problem either. This stuff is going on all around the world. I don't claim to have solutions to these problems, but I would appreciate it if the public shaming and witch hunts would stop. I'm tired, SV. So very tired. I've never worked at AT&T but I'd wager the same stuff went on. Perhaps you experienced the same sort of thing I did where people assumed you wouldn't appreciate their words/actions and elected to avoid you?
      - smtddr 13y ago

Perihelion 13y ago

That hasn't been my experience. After I settled in here people eventually approached me and said they were afraid to talk to me about anything not work-related out of fear that I'd take something the wrong way. I think men are less concerned about their ability to tell rape jokes and more concerned that anything can be blown out of proportion and taken to social media. This sort of stuff can ruin lives and I think THAT is why many men walk on eggshells. In this case, people went after pg without even hearing his side of things, and a quick browse of Twitter leads me to believe that even though he's stated his side of things people are still unwilling to change their stance on this. Instead, they'd rather be pissed off and label him as part of the problem. In some cases what you said is probably true, but based on what I've seen they seem to be a minority. I don't think your average person honestly thinks that rape is okay, even if they find humor in rape jokes.

crassus 13y ago

> "It's been my experience that when men feel like they're walking on eggshells around women in the workplace it's because they're normally comfortable making sexists/rape jokes and/or have sexist beliefs." translated - "If you're afraid of being labeled a witch, you're probably a witch."

Perihelion 13y ago
I disagree. There's a reason that the term "witch hunt" has the connotation that it does.