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Any electoral fraud that relies on having bunches of people vote multiple times necessarily relies on there being a conspiracy of >100 people in order for it to

by leot 13y ago

Any electoral fraud that relies on having bunches of people vote multiple times necessarily relies on there being a conspiracy of >100 people in order for it to be effective (this is the only kind of fraud that can be prevented by demanding that voters produce photo ID). But if a conspiracy is required, then why not address that directly? Offer a $500,000 reward and immunity to any one who provides information about a conspiracy that could have changed the result of an election. Voila: no more "voter fraud".

rlanday 13y ago
I think the most common type of fraud that occurs is voting by people who are not eligible to do so (e.g., because they’re not US citizens). I don’t know on what scale this occurs, but I believe there have been documented instances. A lot of it is probably politically motivated (trying to make it easier vs. harder for lower-income, likely Democratic, voters to register), but the fear of a small number of non-citizens voting based on an immigration issue, for example, and thereby affecting the result of a close election seems at least plausible.
- djur 13y ago
  That isn't fixed by voter ID schemes, though. For an ineligible person to register to vote is voter registration fraud, and you do have to prove your eligibility to register. Voter ID schemes only prevent people voting under other voters' names, and that kind of fraud appears to be extremely rare.
  - dragonwriter 13y ago
    > For an ineligible person to register to vote is voter registration fraud, and you do have to prove your eligibility to register. For fairly weak (and appropriately so) definitions of prove, in most cases. It would be more accurate in most jurisdictions, AFAIK, to say you must assert a set of facts which, if true, would make you eligible to vote in order to register.
zacharytelschow 13y ago
How does vote fraud necessarily rely on a conspiracy? In many states, knowing someone's name and address is sufficient to vote as that person as long as they've previously registered. Any individual can show up at the polling place multiple times and vote as someone else and it would be very difficult to prove they'd done so.
- wtvanhest 13y ago
  Because you need a large enough number to actually make a difference. 1 person going from place to place voting over and over could only get a certain number of votes in over a few weeks. Could one person put 200 votes in if they really worked at it? Maybe, but realistically 200 votes just won't do it. You basically need a conspiracy.
- MichaelSalib 13y ago
  Let's say I show up at the polling place and try to vote in someone else's name. If they've already voted, then I'm in deep trouble. In fact, my polling place often has a police officer hanging out on election day. If they haven't voted but come to vote after me, they're in deep trouble. Either way, there's going to be a big stink and a police report. Moreover, I can't vote more than once in the same precinct: I need to go elsewhere lest I'm recognized, and in most of the US, elsewhere is actually quite far away. It really doesn't make sense spending money to prevent attacks that are completely economically infeasible. Besides, let's say we require ID for voting. Now, everyone who illegally voted before can continue illegally voting: all they have to do is get some fake IDs, which any bored teenager looking for beer can do.
  - Casseres 13y ago
    Every place I've been to vote, the election workers had a printed list of people who could vote and would highlight their names once they voted. It's in plain view and it would be easy to read the names and find one to use while waiting in line to get your ballet.
    - MichaelSalib 13y ago

by leot 13y ago

rlanday 13y ago

I think the most common type of fraud that occurs is voting by people who are not eligible to do so (e.g., because they’re not US citizens). I don’t know on what scale this occurs, but I believe there have been documented instances. A lot of it is probably politically motivated (trying to make it easier vs. harder for lower-income, likely Democratic, voters to register), but the fear of a small number of non-citizens voting based on an immigration issue, for example, and thereby affecting the result of a close election seems at least plausible.

djur 13y ago
That isn't fixed by voter ID schemes, though. For an ineligible person to register to vote is voter registration fraud, and you do have to prove your eligibility to register. Voter ID schemes only prevent people voting under other voters' names, and that kind of fraud appears to be extremely rare.
- dragonwriter 13y ago
  > For an ineligible person to register to vote is voter registration fraud, and you do have to prove your eligibility to register. For fairly weak (and appropriately so) definitions of prove, in most cases. It would be more accurate in most jurisdictions, AFAIK, to say you must assert a set of facts which, if true, would make you eligible to vote in order to register.

zacharytelschow 13y ago

How does vote fraud necessarily rely on a conspiracy? In many states, knowing someone's name and address is sufficient to vote as that person as long as they've previously registered. Any individual can show up at the polling place multiple times and vote as someone else and it would be very difficult to prove they'd done so.

wtvanhest 13y ago
Because you need a large enough number to actually make a difference. 1 person going from place to place voting over and over could only get a certain number of votes in over a few weeks. Could one person put 200 votes in if they really worked at it? Maybe, but realistically 200 votes just won't do it. You basically need a conspiracy.
MichaelSalib 13y ago
Let's say I show up at the polling place and try to vote in someone else's name. If they've already voted, then I'm in deep trouble. In fact, my polling place often has a police officer hanging out on election day. If they haven't voted but come to vote after me, they're in deep trouble. Either way, there's going to be a big stink and a police report. Moreover, I can't vote more than once in the same precinct: I need to go elsewhere lest I'm recognized, and in most of the US, elsewhere is actually quite far away. It really doesn't make sense spending money to prevent attacks that are completely economically infeasible. Besides, let's say we require ID for voting. Now, everyone who illegally voted before can continue illegally voting: all they have to do is get some fake IDs, which any bored teenager looking for beer can do.
- Casseres 13y ago
  Every place I've been to vote, the election workers had a printed list of people who could vote and would highlight their names once they voted. It's in plain view and it would be easy to read the names and find one to use while waiting in line to get your ballet.
  - MichaelSalib 13y ago