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This is so ridiculous. From the fire station to Harvard to Goldman, hiring and admissions in the US are overwhelmingly influenced (i.e. it "makes a difference")

This is so ridiculous. From the fire station to Harvard to Goldman, hiring and admissions in the US are overwhelmingly influenced (i.e. it "makes a difference") by who you know. What are we trying to prove with this witch hunt in China? That we are such a pure and law-abiding democracy? After Snowden, you'd be a fool to believe any of that. This kind of thing really hurts American companies doing business overseas, while accomplishing nothing useful.

bonemachine 13y ago
What are we trying to prove with this witch hunt in China? It isn't a "witch hunt." There's reason to believe it's a violation of federal anti-bribery laws, in the SEC's view. That we are such a pure and law-abiding democracy? You're changing the subject. This kind of thing really hurts American companies doing business overseas, while accomplishing nothing useful. If by "this thing" you're referring to the bribery practice itself, rather than the investigation of it, then I definitely agree.
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  You are completely (deliberately?) missing my point. If bribery is the way business is done in China (and many places around the world), then the anti-bribery regulations serve only to hamstring US businesses. From everyone I've spoken to who works in these countries, there is no way to do big business in China, Russia, India, without bribery. Not allowed to bribe? You hire a contractor (i.e. not an "employee") to do your bribery for you. Just creates more bureaucracy for US companies relative to their European competitors. And if the point of the anti-bribery regulations is to, I don't know, have a more ethical and law-abiding US, then the US Government should start with itself. These regulations (see above paragraph) do not reduce bribery overseas or help to make a better world.
  - bonemachine 13y ago
    If bribery is the way business is done in China, .. then the anti-bribery regulations serve only to hamstring US businesses. No, they do not "serve only to hamstring US business." They exist to prevent private parties from undermining ("with corrupt intent") foreign policy as dictated by the executive branch, and by congress. They may (or may not) "hamstring" overseas business practice, as a side effect. But it is only through very muddled thinking that you can take the view that is the "only", or the most significant effect of anti-bribery statutes.
    - auctiontheory 13y ago
      Based on your last two responses, you might want to google "begging the question."
      - bonemachine 13y ago
        you might want to google ... If that's all you have to say for yourself at this point, then I rest my case.

bonemachine 13y ago

What are we trying to prove with this witch hunt in China? It isn't a "witch hunt." There's reason to believe it's a violation of federal anti-bribery laws, in the SEC's view. That we are such a pure and law-abiding democracy? You're changing the subject. This kind of thing really hurts American companies doing business overseas, while accomplishing nothing useful. If by "this thing" you're referring to the bribery practice itself, rather than the investigation of it, then I definitely agree.

auctiontheory 13y ago
You are completely (deliberately?) missing my point. If bribery is the way business is done in China (and many places around the world), then the anti-bribery regulations serve only to hamstring US businesses. From everyone I've spoken to who works in these countries, there is no way to do big business in China, Russia, India, without bribery. Not allowed to bribe? You hire a contractor (i.e. not an "employee") to do your bribery for you. Just creates more bureaucracy for US companies relative to their European competitors. And if the point of the anti-bribery regulations is to, I don't know, have a more ethical and law-abiding US, then the US Government should start with itself. These regulations (see above paragraph) do not reduce bribery overseas or help to make a better world.
- bonemachine 13y ago
  If bribery is the way business is done in China, .. then the anti-bribery regulations serve only to hamstring US businesses. No, they do not "serve only to hamstring US business." They exist to prevent private parties from undermining ("with corrupt intent") foreign policy as dictated by the executive branch, and by congress. They may (or may not) "hamstring" overseas business practice, as a side effect. But it is only through very muddled thinking that you can take the view that is the "only", or the most significant effect of anti-bribery statutes.
  - auctiontheory 13y ago
    Based on your last two responses, you might want to google "begging the question."
    - bonemachine 13y ago
      you might want to google ... If that's all you have to say for yourself at this point, then I rest my case.