5 ms·

You've clearly never worked in a factory as a low level person who is usually asked last, if at all, how to solve a problem concerning their job. I've forwarded

You've clearly never worked in a factory as a low level person who is usually asked last, if at all, how to solve a problem concerning their job. I've forwarded this to my father, who will love it as a person who rose from the shop floor to the highest levels of management and never lost his distrust of "college boys."

dkarl 13y ago
I don't think your father will like the joke, either. According to the story, the line workers had the ability to fix the problem all along, but they didn't bother until the $8 million system made it personally inconvenient for them when an empty box reached the scales. It makes them sound clever but also rather lazy and selfish.
- Xdes 13y ago
  >the line workers had the ability to fix the problem all along Yes they had the ability, but did the line workers know that empty boxes being shipped was a problem? There is no solution without a problem.
  - michaelwww 13y ago
    They most likely didn't. My father used to be sent around as a trouble shooter and would tell stories of managers never setting foot on the factory floor to talk to the workers.
  - ars_technician 13y ago
    Are the workers so stupid that they think shipping empty boxes is normal?
    - cema 13y ago
      Common sense is not always wrong.
- CodeMage 13y ago
  Yes, we all know that the line workers are usually: * given high(er)-level information on how the company is doing * asked for their opinions * highly motivated by management to solve problems like that I highly recommend reading The Gervais Principle.
- antr 13y ago
  unfortunately line workers are never asked "what would you do?"
  - nickonline 13y ago
    And even if asked "how would you fix the problem" Answering with "Put a fan right there to blow all the empty boxes off the line" would be seen as taking the piss and laughed off with comments like "You're missing the big picture"
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  >>the line workers had the ability to fix the problem But not the authority.
- emiunet 13y ago
  This reminds me of an article about lazy people innovate. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4178031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4178031
RougeFemme 13y ago
I think one of the first things the college boys are taught now - or should be - is that one of the first things they should do is talk to the low-level folks on the floor. Even if they don't have the solution, they often have information/experience that can inform the solution or even better, what the real problem is. And this applies not only to factory floors, but to any "system" made up of people and processes (equipment optional). As an engineering major, I did a few co-op assignments in a factory. I was assigned the task of figuring out how to optimize a particular line in the factory - we had new equipment coming in and were considering retrofitting some of the other equipment. The folks working on the floor told me how much they appreciated that I spoke with them and got their input rather than simply coming down with my "stopwatch and measuring tape." Now I'm on the other side of the line <sigh>. And I'm sick of management and/or experts trying figure out how to improve morale and processes without consulting those of us in the trenches.
- HCIdivision17 13y ago
  I sure hope you're right. It wasn't drilled into me when I was in engineering school (mid-2000s), but I will heartily confirm that operators are a fantastic resource. Interviewing operators is definitely not optional if you want to succeed. Engineers who just leap in often look foolish and face a lot of resistance getting upgrades implemented (well, ideally at least). That said, operators tend to be masters of their section, but do not often have a comprehensive high-level view (excepting relief operators, who need to have a good idea of the whole process to cover multiple positions). As a result, I treat their input as a deposition or raw data/evidence: pure, unfiltered signal. Some interpretation is likely needed to make it fit into the overall whole of the process, but it's miles away better than guessing or just trusting assumptions! Process engineering is a comprehensive and collaborative field. Leave operators out, and you're just not looking at the process. People matter. A lot.
  - a_olt 13y ago
    This story is probably part of the "blue collar innovation" legends. For more: http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/innovate.asp http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/innovate.asp "The legend about a low-level employee who pipes up with a shockingly brilliant yet simple suggestion that either makes or saves his employer untold millions of dollars has long been part of the canon of business legends."

dkarl 13y ago

I don't think your father will like the joke, either. According to the story, the line workers had the ability to fix the problem all along, but they didn't bother until the $8 million system made it personally inconvenient for them when an empty box reached the scales. It makes them sound clever but also rather lazy and selfish.

Xdes 13y ago
>the line workers had the ability to fix the problem all along Yes they had the ability, but did the line workers know that empty boxes being shipped was a problem? There is no solution without a problem.
- michaelwww 13y ago
  They most likely didn't. My father used to be sent around as a trouble shooter and would tell stories of managers never setting foot on the factory floor to talk to the workers.
- ars_technician 13y ago
  Are the workers so stupid that they think shipping empty boxes is normal?
  - cema 13y ago
    Common sense is not always wrong.
CodeMage 13y ago
Yes, we all know that the line workers are usually: * given high(er)-level information on how the company is doing * asked for their opinions * highly motivated by management to solve problems like that I highly recommend reading The Gervais Principle.
antr 13y ago
unfortunately line workers are never asked "what would you do?"
- nickonline 13y ago
  And even if asked "how would you fix the problem" Answering with "Put a fan right there to blow all the empty boxes off the line" would be seen as taking the piss and laughed off with comments like "You're missing the big picture"
enraged_camel 13y ago
>>the line workers had the ability to fix the problem But not the authority.
emiunet 13y ago
This reminds me of an article about lazy people innovate. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4178031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4178031

RougeFemme 13y ago

I think one of the first things the college boys are taught now - or should be - is that one of the first things they should do is talk to the low-level folks on the floor. Even if they don't have the solution, they often have information/experience that can inform the solution or even better, what the real problem is. And this applies not only to factory floors, but to any "system" made up of people and processes (equipment optional). As an engineering major, I did a few co-op assignments in a factory. I was assigned the task of figuring out how to optimize a particular line in the factory - we had new equipment coming in and were considering retrofitting some of the other equipment. The folks working on the floor told me how much they appreciated that I spoke with them and got their input rather than simply coming down with my "stopwatch and measuring tape." Now I'm on the other side of the line <sigh>. And I'm sick of management and/or experts trying figure out how to improve morale and processes without consulting those of us in the trenches.

HCIdivision17 13y ago
I sure hope you're right. It wasn't drilled into me when I was in engineering school (mid-2000s), but I will heartily confirm that operators are a fantastic resource. Interviewing operators is definitely not optional if you want to succeed. Engineers who just leap in often look foolish and face a lot of resistance getting upgrades implemented (well, ideally at least). That said, operators tend to be masters of their section, but do not often have a comprehensive high-level view (excepting relief operators, who need to have a good idea of the whole process to cover multiple positions). As a result, I treat their input as a deposition or raw data/evidence: pure, unfiltered signal. Some interpretation is likely needed to make it fit into the overall whole of the process, but it's miles away better than guessing or just trusting assumptions! Process engineering is a comprehensive and collaborative field. Leave operators out, and you're just not looking at the process. People matter. A lot.
- a_olt 13y ago
  This story is probably part of the "blue collar innovation" legends. For more: http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/innovate.asp http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/innovate.asp "The legend about a low-level employee who pipes up with a shockingly brilliant yet simple suggestion that either makes or saves his employer untold millions of dollars has long been part of the canon of business legends."