6 ms·

I'm not sure if it's right or wrong what Google did, but it was certainly a shit business decision. It's Google's job to be a proper search tool for anyone to g

by jawerty 13y ago

I'm not sure if it's right or wrong what Google did, but it was certainly a shit business decision. It's Google's job to be a proper search tool for anyone to get the best possible results when searching something as simple as "rapgenius". If I search "rapgenius" and don't get the hugely popular website http://rapgenius.com http://rapgenius.com as the first result, then that's bad service on Google's end.

fragsworth 13y ago
> but it was certainly a shit business decision Not really, because they're using this kind of punishment to make an example of them in order to prevent future SEO abuse by others. It's probably for the better.
- Destitute 13y ago
  The abuse already goes on, and it's much more involved and 1,000% more effective than trading links.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
  - jonknee 13y ago
    Almost no one will notice as long as they get their lyrics.
    - schrodinger 13y ago
      Consumers don't have to notice, rap genius and other sites considering similar tactics do.
  - asdasga 13y ago
    Assuming Google can perfectly balance a general purpose and highly complex system like this is naive or just plain disingenuous. The best they can do is penalize them on certain metrics and if that has other side effects, well, too f*cking bad.
mschuster91 13y ago
+1. Even if RapGenius did cheat, they are still the best solution for Google's customers (i.e. those sheep whose data can be mined and sold). So I don't get why Google essentially fucks up with their customers.
- Destitute 13y ago
  Kind of like Too Big to Fail. Hmm...
- mcbaby 13y ago
  I don't think it's fair to make that kind of teleological evaluation... Yes, RapGenius may be the best solution for google's customer. However, if Google permits shady SEO tactics simply because the ends justify the means, then what kind of precedent are they establishing? They would be encouraging that kind of behavior. As a heavy RapGenius user, I'm upset with what occurred, but from an objective standpoint, it makes sense why Google made its decision.
- jonknee 13y ago
  Why is RapGenius the best result for Google searchers? I just want lyrics, if Google can get me to them I am happy. RG has a ton of bloat that I don't want or need.
  - sejje 13y ago
    Because when you google for "rapgenius" the best result is unquestionably rapgenius.
    - mikeg8 13y ago
      That's true but that is just one query, I'd assume an overwhelming of RG's organic traffic didn't come from searching the company name.
    - 001sky 13y ago
      No, when you have the website you don't need to "google" it.
cynicalkane 13y ago
It's a game theory thing. There have been and will be a huge number of sites that would do anything to be #1 on Google. In an iterated game, punishments must have a deterrent effect. They might seem disproportional, but Google's goal is not "do what's best for the world in this one instance, ignoring the long-term effects". Google's goal is "make sure nobody will try to cheat Google's algorithms, now or in the future." This is how you build the best search engine in the long run. It would be the same if Google didn't dominate search, though they'd have to be more careful about optimally calibrating the punishment. (N.B. This argument remains true even if other people are gaming Google right now.)
- tptacek 13y ago
  Well put. Also, maybe RG made things worse for themselves with their "apology", which attempted to point out other misdeeds by competing lyrics sites. Had that argument prevailed, the message sent might have been "it's probably safe to game Google as long as you can find other successful-seeming sites playing the same game", which would be a very bad precedent for Google to be facing.
  - asdasga 13y ago
    Not to mention that it's about as sophisticated a response as you'd expect from a scalded 6 year old. "But Mummy, all the other boys were doing it too!!"
jonknee 13y ago
Humorously, now that RapGenius is dead in SERP it is not a hugely popular website.
loceng 13y ago
People couldn't search for lyrics on Google before Rap Genius came along?
norswap 13y ago
I've geen getting the same old spammy sites in my results for years. Why not start there instead of the genuinely useful rapgenius?
ZoFreX 13y ago
I agree; I just shrugged and made a mental note to use Bing whenever I look for lyrics. I already use it for image searching and translation.

by jawerty 13y ago

fragsworth 13y ago

> but it was certainly a shit business decision Not really, because they're using this kind of punishment to make an example of them in order to prevent future SEO abuse by others. It's probably for the better.

Destitute 13y ago
The abuse already goes on, and it's much more involved and 1,000% more effective than trading links.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
- jonknee 13y ago
  Almost no one will notice as long as they get their lyrics.
  - schrodinger 13y ago
    Consumers don't have to notice, rap genius and other sites considering similar tactics do.
- asdasga 13y ago
  Assuming Google can perfectly balance a general purpose and highly complex system like this is naive or just plain disingenuous. The best they can do is penalize them on certain metrics and if that has other side effects, well, too f*cking bad.

mschuster91 13y ago

+1. Even if RapGenius did cheat, they are still the best solution for Google's customers (i.e. those sheep whose data can be mined and sold). So I don't get why Google essentially fucks up with their customers.

Destitute 13y ago
Kind of like Too Big to Fail. Hmm...
mcbaby 13y ago
I don't think it's fair to make that kind of teleological evaluation... Yes, RapGenius may be the best solution for google's customer. However, if Google permits shady SEO tactics simply because the ends justify the means, then what kind of precedent are they establishing? They would be encouraging that kind of behavior. As a heavy RapGenius user, I'm upset with what occurred, but from an objective standpoint, it makes sense why Google made its decision.
jonknee 13y ago
Why is RapGenius the best result for Google searchers? I just want lyrics, if Google can get me to them I am happy. RG has a ton of bloat that I don't want or need.
- sejje 13y ago
  Because when you google for "rapgenius" the best result is unquestionably rapgenius.
  - mikeg8 13y ago
    That's true but that is just one query, I'd assume an overwhelming of RG's organic traffic didn't come from searching the company name.
  - 001sky 13y ago
    No, when you have the website you don't need to "google" it.

cynicalkane 13y ago

It's a game theory thing. There have been and will be a huge number of sites that would do anything to be #1 on Google. In an iterated game, punishments must have a deterrent effect. They might seem disproportional, but Google's goal is not "do what's best for the world in this one instance, ignoring the long-term effects". Google's goal is "make sure nobody will try to cheat Google's algorithms, now or in the future." This is how you build the best search engine in the long run. It would be the same if Google didn't dominate search, though they'd have to be more careful about optimally calibrating the punishment. (N.B. This argument remains true even if other people are gaming Google right now.)

tptacek 13y ago
Well put. Also, maybe RG made things worse for themselves with their "apology", which attempted to point out other misdeeds by competing lyrics sites. Had that argument prevailed, the message sent might have been "it's probably safe to game Google as long as you can find other successful-seeming sites playing the same game", which would be a very bad precedent for Google to be facing.
- asdasga 13y ago
  Not to mention that it's about as sophisticated a response as you'd expect from a scalded 6 year old. "But Mummy, all the other boys were doing it too!!"

jonknee 13y ago

Humorously, now that RapGenius is dead in SERP it is not a hugely popular website.

loceng 13y ago

People couldn't search for lyrics on Google before Rap Genius came along?

norswap 13y ago

I've geen getting the same old spammy sites in my results for years. Why not start there instead of the genuinely useful rapgenius?

ZoFreX 13y ago

I agree; I just shrugged and made a mental note to use Bing whenever I look for lyrics. I already use it for image searching and translation.