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> There is a lot of systemic bias in the system against young women taking this kind of direction with their studies and their career. I understand there is cu

by athesyn 13y ago

> There is a lot of systemic bias in the system against young women taking this kind of direction with their studies and their career. I understand there is cultural bias, but systemic? There are more women attending and graduating college than men, they're more economically prosperous in their early twenties as well.[1] [1]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-w...

tptacek 13y ago
Yes, because they are very well represented in the traditional professions: law, accounting, and medicine. They are not well represented in computer software. That's what we're talking about. Go to a crypto conference sometime. If, like me, you hail from computer software and not from academic cryptography and mathematics, you will probably be surprised at how much better women are represented there than in software. The technology of cryptography is more demanding than computer software, but very similar in spirit. What is it about the field of computer software development that keeps so many women out? I suspect some of it has to do with the way we take observations about what successful developers have looked like in the past --- young white dudes --- and create fast paths for those people. People who "fit the mold" have an easier time making progress in our field. People who don't fit the mold have to contend with more interrogation, more doubt, and slower progress. It's true of other minorities (relative to software development demographics) as well, particularly older people.
- Sssnake 13y ago
  >They are not well represented in computer software Are they "well represented" in any skilled trade? Why is this one specific skilled trade such a unique cause for concern and inventing crazy reasons to blame the people in the trade?
  - jdunck 13y ago
    Because software is eating the world. Because entrepreneurship creates jobs. Because software is the new means of production. Because people different than you have problems which are different than yours. Because dog-fooding is a great way to make something people want. Lots more reasons, but chew on those.
    - Sssnake 13y ago
      Only 1 and 3 are relevant, and I don't believe either of them are true. The rest of those apply equally to all sorts of other skilled trades.
      - jdunck 13y ago
        Thanks for showing your confirmation bias. Keep asking questions you don't want to think about.
        Sssnake 13y ago
        If you don't have any interest in engaging in a good faith discussion that don't reply. This isn't reddit, shitposting isn't rewarded here.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
mtrimpe 13y ago
I don't think the line between cultural and systemic bias (as used in the article's context) is as clear cut as you interpret it as. They heavily influence each other at the least and depending on your definition either could even be considered a superset of the other.

by athesyn 13y ago

tptacek 13y ago

Yes, because they are very well represented in the traditional professions: law, accounting, and medicine. They are not well represented in computer software. That's what we're talking about. Go to a crypto conference sometime. If, like me, you hail from computer software and not from academic cryptography and mathematics, you will probably be surprised at how much better women are represented there than in software. The technology of cryptography is more demanding than computer software, but very similar in spirit. What is it about the field of computer software development that keeps so many women out? I suspect some of it has to do with the way we take observations about what successful developers have looked like in the past --- young white dudes --- and create fast paths for those people. People who "fit the mold" have an easier time making progress in our field. People who don't fit the mold have to contend with more interrogation, more doubt, and slower progress. It's true of other minorities (relative to software development demographics) as well, particularly older people.

Sssnake 13y ago
>They are not well represented in computer software Are they "well represented" in any skilled trade? Why is this one specific skilled trade such a unique cause for concern and inventing crazy reasons to blame the people in the trade?
- jdunck 13y ago
  Because software is eating the world. Because entrepreneurship creates jobs. Because software is the new means of production. Because people different than you have problems which are different than yours. Because dog-fooding is a great way to make something people want. Lots more reasons, but chew on those.
  - Sssnake 13y ago
    Only 1 and 3 are relevant, and I don't believe either of them are true. The rest of those apply equally to all sorts of other skilled trades.
    - jdunck 13y ago
      Thanks for showing your confirmation bias. Keep asking questions you don't want to think about.
      - Sssnake 13y ago
        If you don't have any interest in engaging in a good faith discussion that don't reply. This isn't reddit, shitposting isn't rewarded here.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]

mtrimpe 13y ago

I don't think the line between cultural and systemic bias (as used in the article's context) is as clear cut as you interpret it as. They heavily influence each other at the least and depending on your definition either could even be considered a superset of the other.