8 ms·

I hope PG doesn't get too frightened by the press from this and stops being his usual honest plainspoken self. We need more people like him trying to portray an

by sbt 13y ago

I hope PG doesn't get too frightened by the press from this and stops being his usual honest plainspoken self. We need more people like him trying to portray an accurate map of the territory, rather than being afraid of how quotes may be spun by cheap journalists.

philwelch 13y ago
If he takes his own advice[1], he'd be hard pressed to say anything at all. When people furiously accuse you of misogyny for not repeating the party line, there's no good faith discussion possible. [1] http://paulgraham.com/say.html http://paulgraham.com/say.html
- crassus 13y ago
  "Party line" is an interesting choice of words. There's definitely some unhealthy groupthink going on that's gaining in power. It's never been easier to have something said taken out of context and have your reputation dragged through the mud by people who are professional social justice warriors and not much else (I doubt Nitasha Tiku could program "hello world") Maybe it's due to the rise of twitter and the ease of taking things out of context. It seems to fuel tabloid "journalists" like Sam Biddle who sit around on twitter all day, looking for tweets that he can read X-ism into. The sad thing is that if Paul Graham were an employee of a tech company, he'd probably be fired by now[1]. The room for thought and discussion is much smaller than it used to be, even though we have more tools for self-expression than ever before. Moldbug saw this happening and he decided that "America is a Communist Country". I think that's a bit strong, but I agree that at least the progressive half of the country is converging on a narrow, extreme Social Justice ideology. First they came for the dongle jokers, and I did not speak, because I was not a dongle joker... [1] http://handleshaus.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/bullied-and-badgered-pressured-and-purged/ http://handleshaus.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/bullied-and-badg...
  - yetanotherphd 13y ago
    Indeed, and its ironic that the same people who seek to expose anyone who says something un-PC, are so quick to accuse anyone who criticizes their movement of harassment.
  - jsmthrowaway 13y ago
    Shanley Kane and her circle and sympathizers are spearheading this. Many of them show up in every HN thread about charged topics. I fully expect defense of them to show up in reply. It is part of my core being to be respectful to everyone, to listen to all sides, to feel empathy; however, when I am presented with a popular group in my industry that does none of those things, I am not sure how to react. What's depressing is how many people get added to that list, some unexpectedly; I had a lot of respect for Alex Gaynor until he filed that famous pull request and threw his lot in with that crowd (which he did when he wrote a blog post that said "if you disagree, you are wrong," effectively ending the possibility of rationally disagreeing with him). I want to make things better as a white male, but I am fairly tired of her group trying to make me regret the situation I was born into. It's not my fault I'm a white male, I am cognizant of my advantage, and I want to help other groups in this industry; however, there is no speaking to them. I've tried. I'm a white male and I am evil to them, the irony of which is not lost on me given their purpose. I think I partially know how it feels to be gay, because I didn't choose my situation yet there is an extremely vocal group that wants me to believe I am doing something wrong. On top of that, I know several women in the industry, from marketing wizard to expert programmer with publish credits, who have to tip toe when they go to a company because men are being trained that all women are like Shanley in the industry. I have yet to meet a woman that appreciates the efforts of the Twitter cabal. Some of them won't share that opinion because they're scared to death of being marked. Just look at historical precedent. Shanley never misses a chance to go after Sarah Lacy. Zed Shaw is still going after Steve Holden every chance he gets. Once you fuck up you are followed for life. I bet people are religiously looking for the guy from PlayHaven to see what he does next. More apropos, Shanley is now furiously trying to get journalists to support her anti-HN agenda, and is calling for a boycott of all portfolio companies, simply based on one comment by pg. That's the modus operandae of these people: all it takes is one mistake, one out of context quote, anything, and the party line is now that Y Combinator is misogynistic and represents the active VC discrimination against women. Some brave soul asked her for proof on Twitter and got a healthy "fuck you" back after she told him to Google it. That's some McCarthyesque shit right there. Is that what we are now? Communist hunters? Because I could have sworn we were smart folks trying to make the world a better place. I worry about the outright animosity that is gaining support in our industry. There is no inclination to work together, only standing around and yelling at each other. Enough people seem to think that's a good thing because several of her circle started Gittip accounts and they are cleaning house. I have no idea what to make of that. My only recourse thus far has been to keep distance and remember the companies that foster this animosity by employing those folks and publicly supporting their ideals. Then I think twice about ever working there. Basho and Joyent come to mind. On the flip side, I'd be privileged to work at SendGrid, who publicly took a stand against such behavior. 2013 for me: the US government is now an advanced persistent threat against my infrastructure and there is also an advanced persistent threat developing against my career, lest I not suppress independent thought.

by sbt 13y ago

philwelch 13y ago

If he takes his own advice[1], he'd be hard pressed to say anything at all. When people furiously accuse you of misogyny for not repeating the party line, there's no good faith discussion possible. [1] http://paulgraham.com/say.html http://paulgraham.com/say.html

crassus 13y ago
"Party line" is an interesting choice of words. There's definitely some unhealthy groupthink going on that's gaining in power. It's never been easier to have something said taken out of context and have your reputation dragged through the mud by people who are professional social justice warriors and not much else (I doubt Nitasha Tiku could program "hello world") Maybe it's due to the rise of twitter and the ease of taking things out of context. It seems to fuel tabloid "journalists" like Sam Biddle who sit around on twitter all day, looking for tweets that he can read X-ism into. The sad thing is that if Paul Graham were an employee of a tech company, he'd probably be fired by now[1]. The room for thought and discussion is much smaller than it used to be, even though we have more tools for self-expression than ever before. Moldbug saw this happening and he decided that "America is a Communist Country". I think that's a bit strong, but I agree that at least the progressive half of the country is converging on a narrow, extreme Social Justice ideology. First they came for the dongle jokers, and I did not speak, because I was not a dongle joker... [1] http://handleshaus.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/bullied-and-badgered-pressured-and-purged/ http://handleshaus.wordpress.com/2013/12/26/bullied-and-badg...
- yetanotherphd 13y ago
  Indeed, and its ironic that the same people who seek to expose anyone who says something un-PC, are so quick to accuse anyone who criticizes their movement of harassment.
- jsmthrowaway 13y ago
  Shanley Kane and her circle and sympathizers are spearheading this. Many of them show up in every HN thread about charged topics. I fully expect defense of them to show up in reply. It is part of my core being to be respectful to everyone, to listen to all sides, to feel empathy; however, when I am presented with a popular group in my industry that does none of those things, I am not sure how to react. What's depressing is how many people get added to that list, some unexpectedly; I had a lot of respect for Alex Gaynor until he filed that famous pull request and threw his lot in with that crowd (which he did when he wrote a blog post that said "if you disagree, you are wrong," effectively ending the possibility of rationally disagreeing with him). I want to make things better as a white male, but I am fairly tired of her group trying to make me regret the situation I was born into. It's not my fault I'm a white male, I am cognizant of my advantage, and I want to help other groups in this industry; however, there is no speaking to them. I've tried. I'm a white male and I am evil to them, the irony of which is not lost on me given their purpose. I think I partially know how it feels to be gay, because I didn't choose my situation yet there is an extremely vocal group that wants me to believe I am doing something wrong. On top of that, I know several women in the industry, from marketing wizard to expert programmer with publish credits, who have to tip toe when they go to a company because men are being trained that all women are like Shanley in the industry. I have yet to meet a woman that appreciates the efforts of the Twitter cabal. Some of them won't share that opinion because they're scared to death of being marked. Just look at historical precedent. Shanley never misses a chance to go after Sarah Lacy. Zed Shaw is still going after Steve Holden every chance he gets. Once you fuck up you are followed for life. I bet people are religiously looking for the guy from PlayHaven to see what he does next. More apropos, Shanley is now furiously trying to get journalists to support her anti-HN agenda, and is calling for a boycott of all portfolio companies, simply based on one comment by pg. That's the modus operandae of these people: all it takes is one mistake, one out of context quote, anything, and the party line is now that Y Combinator is misogynistic and represents the active VC discrimination against women. Some brave soul asked her for proof on Twitter and got a healthy "fuck you" back after she told him to Google it. That's some McCarthyesque shit right there. Is that what we are now? Communist hunters? Because I could have sworn we were smart folks trying to make the world a better place. I worry about the outright animosity that is gaining support in our industry. There is no inclination to work together, only standing around and yelling at each other. Enough people seem to think that's a good thing because several of her circle started Gittip accounts and they are cleaning house. I have no idea what to make of that. My only recourse thus far has been to keep distance and remember the companies that foster this animosity by employing those folks and publicly supporting their ideals. Then I think twice about ever working there. Basho and Joyent come to mind. On the flip side, I'd be privileged to work at SendGrid, who publicly took a stand against such behavior. 2013 for me: the US government is now an advanced persistent threat against my infrastructure and there is also an advanced persistent threat developing against my career, lest I not suppress independent thought.