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My original response was much more involved but I curtailed it to this. I believe I replied pretty much in the same manner as jusbin1369. My hope is that for

My original response was much more involved but I curtailed it to this. I believe I replied pretty much in the same manner as jusbin1369. My hope is that for people that look at comments only they will actually read the article instead of reading jusbin1369's comment and skipping it because they wouldn't want to be "manipulated" or consider the article another "propaganda" piece. I also get very wary of questioning the intelligence of HN's crowd. I would gather readers are smart enough to know when they are being manipulated or not. I don't feel I need to be told or tell anyone how to be careful. This issue is complex. I for one am grateful that we have newspapers outside the US that are willing to do this type of reporting. We all love technology on HN and I am sure we all love drone technology (I certainly do) but personally I feel the use of technology is more important than the technology itself. I definitely think in this debate, there does seem to be room for much much more information that needs to be put out there.

haberman 13y ago
Your entire comment was sarcasm. Sarcasm is not a constructive or compelling way of making an argument.
- Helianthus 13y ago
  I dunno, I thought it worked pretty well. Prim posturing, however, I find bland.
  - ars_technician 13y ago
    Sarcasm is a tool for someone that can't actually come up with a counter-argument. It's an appeal to absurdity combined with a strawman. Exaggerate the other side's point until it sounds ridiculous and pretend that's an argument.
    - pessimizer 13y ago
      Did you detect an argument in the OP to be responded to? The argument that people die in war, perhaps? The Fox News argument? The argument that if they're bombing weddings now, they were probably bombing villages before? The sarcasm seemed to be based on the fact that you can agree that truth is good and falsehood is bad and not see that as a reason to dismiss the Guardian piece.
    - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
      Sometimes the ridiculousness of the opposition's argument is more compelling to the majority of people than saying "You've committed fallacy A, B, C, D, & F." Especially when the 'argument' in question actually isn't even an argument. "Opinion piece is misleading because it isn't a factual non-biased piece of journalism" seems like one of these times.
      - ars_technician 13y ago
        Ridiculousness is just a subjective opinion though, that's why it makes such a terrible argument. I think it's ridiculousness that McDonald's doesn't have free refills in the UK, but I doubt many UK residents feel the same way.
        ItendToDisagree 13y ago
        Good illustration of a time when a logical argument makes no sense but pointing out the ridiculousness shines light on the point!
- avenger123 13y ago
  It is sarcasm. I don't disagree with you on it. In terms of its effectiveness, I don't know. I contrasted a strong comment by singling out a single point about it. I certainly didn't intend it to be an attack and I hope its not seen as such by jusben1369. In terms of its appropriateness, I guess that's debatable too. If me and jusben1369 were having a chat about this person to person, I'm sure we'd know that its a hearty debate and we could debate the merits of our opinion while still respecting each other and knowing that we have differing viewpoints. Not to say that this is always easy to do. With only the written word, I guess these types of comments can be seen as verbal jousting. If this is viewed as such by everyone (especially jusben1369) then this was not my intention.
  - varjag 13y ago
    It might be appropriate on reddit, on the street, in a TV debate, in your living room, Hyde Park speakers corner, but it is not on HN. These kinds of comments are discouraged here, it's in the posting guidelines.
- jayferd 13y ago
  Sarcasm is a brilliant tool to use against derailing.
  - ars_technician 13y ago
    Why? It's just a strawman.

haberman 13y ago

Your entire comment was sarcasm. Sarcasm is not a constructive or compelling way of making an argument.

Helianthus 13y ago
I dunno, I thought it worked pretty well. Prim posturing, however, I find bland.
- ars_technician 13y ago
  Sarcasm is a tool for someone that can't actually come up with a counter-argument. It's an appeal to absurdity combined with a strawman. Exaggerate the other side's point until it sounds ridiculous and pretend that's an argument.
  - pessimizer 13y ago
    Did you detect an argument in the OP to be responded to? The argument that people die in war, perhaps? The Fox News argument? The argument that if they're bombing weddings now, they were probably bombing villages before? The sarcasm seemed to be based on the fact that you can agree that truth is good and falsehood is bad and not see that as a reason to dismiss the Guardian piece.
  - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
    Sometimes the ridiculousness of the opposition's argument is more compelling to the majority of people than saying "You've committed fallacy A, B, C, D, & F." Especially when the 'argument' in question actually isn't even an argument. "Opinion piece is misleading because it isn't a factual non-biased piece of journalism" seems like one of these times.
    - ars_technician 13y ago
      Ridiculousness is just a subjective opinion though, that's why it makes such a terrible argument. I think it's ridiculousness that McDonald's doesn't have free refills in the UK, but I doubt many UK residents feel the same way.
      - ItendToDisagree 13y ago
        Good illustration of a time when a logical argument makes no sense but pointing out the ridiculousness shines light on the point!
avenger123 13y ago
It is sarcasm. I don't disagree with you on it. In terms of its effectiveness, I don't know. I contrasted a strong comment by singling out a single point about it. I certainly didn't intend it to be an attack and I hope its not seen as such by jusben1369. In terms of its appropriateness, I guess that's debatable too. If me and jusben1369 were having a chat about this person to person, I'm sure we'd know that its a hearty debate and we could debate the merits of our opinion while still respecting each other and knowing that we have differing viewpoints. Not to say that this is always easy to do. With only the written word, I guess these types of comments can be seen as verbal jousting. If this is viewed as such by everyone (especially jusben1369) then this was not my intention.
- varjag 13y ago
  It might be appropriate on reddit, on the street, in a TV debate, in your living room, Hyde Park speakers corner, but it is not on HN. These kinds of comments are discouraged here, it's in the posting guidelines.
jayferd 13y ago
Sarcasm is a brilliant tool to use against derailing.
- ars_technician 13y ago
  Why? It's just a strawman.