8 ms·

Uber now has to wait 15 minutes before picking you up in France

61 points by bjenik 13y ago

bjenik 13y ago
An idea to "fix" this: In the beginning (after signing up) a bunch of orders are created and sent out to the drivers. The orders technically exist, but the drivers are told to not show up right now. Then, at least 15 minutes later, the user can tap a "show up now" button which tells the driver to actually pick up the user. So in the end you have to wait 15 minutes when using the service for the first time, but after that it is a lot faster because the orders created in the beginning can be "activated" immediately.
- objclxt 13y ago
  You could argue that it's Uber's attempts to "fix" pesky regulations that have got them into this mess in the first place. I doubt trying to circumvent this in the way you describe would really make the regulators any more sympathetic towards Uber. There's an interesting business case study to be done between Uber and Hailo (based in London, far more popular there than Uber, expanding overseas), the latter of which was founded by cab drivers themselves and has taken a far more 'softly softly' approach to compliance (arguably at the expense of revenue, but the benefit of not having to deal with this kind of thing).
  - true_religion 13y ago
    Well the point of circumvention is not to engender sympathy. It's to find a legal loophole wherein even if the regulators hate you, they can't pursue you.
- dasmithii 13y ago
  This is an interesting idea; however, it seems that it wouldn't necessarily help. I'm uncertain whether the orders you speak of are reservations, or phonies with the purpose of circumventing the new bill. If the former is the case, drivers would still be unable to serve the greatest need - spontaneous rides. The latter could potentially work, but surely it would be caught eventually.
- freyrs3 13y ago
  That's a workaround, not a fix.
  - onedev 13y ago
    A"hack" if you will..... Sorry I will stop using that word now.
spindritf 13y ago
Presumably, the taxi industry is "heavily regulated" for the benefit of the customer, then shouldn't customers flock to this excellent, regulated service on their own? Why are those artificial and arbitrary limits necessary?
- officemonkey 13y ago
  The last time I went to Brasserie Flo after a concert at New Morning I waited 90 minutes at a taxi stand for cabs behind a 50-foot line of other late-night revelers. Cabs came 10 minutes apart. I have never waited so long for a cab in a major city. The industry may be heavily regulated, but it does not seem to be rigged in favor of the customer. If I knew I would get a ride in 15 minutes, I would snap at this in every city I travel to.
- diminoten 13y ago
  Not necessarily, not if some companies are committing fraud, or creating a monopoly.
- southpawgirl 13y ago
  In some Italian cities the situation is no different: taxi licenses are issued only on a fixed, limited number and are sometimes inherited from father to child, often sold for mind-boggling amounts (comparable to the price of a house). The service as a result is quite crap: long waits, high prices per km and all the most contrived surcharges you can think of (5 additional Euros for the airport and some tourist destinations, etc). Each time a deregulation is proposed (and it does happen) there are immense backlashes from a small category that would be not only stripped of a privilege, but actually, properly ruined: some cabbies have to take 10 yrs mortgages to buy a license. It's a legacy state of affairs that carries on only because it's difficult to remove, not because it's of actual advantage to anyone.
  - gioele 13y ago
    > high prices per km In Italy, and in other European countries, the taxi prices are set by the city councils, not the taxi drivers.
w1ntermute 13y ago
...and they wonder why their economy is shit.
- _cbb1 13y ago
  +1 to this.
_red 13y ago
Must each taxi driver also be named Harrison Bergeron?
mehphp 13y ago
"Back in October, the French government mentioned this piece of legislation as these new services would hurt traditional cab drivers." So? That's how the market and progress works. If a service can't stand up on it's own, it doesn't need to exist.
- thenmar 13y ago
  What a meaningless platitude. The world isn't quite as simple as that.
  - randyrand 13y ago
    Sure, but in regards to creative destruction it is almost always true in my experience.
  - RBerenguel 13y ago
    Every time I see an Uber post related to Europe I wonder if in the US taxis don't need to pay the outrageous license fees (in addition to a whole lot of other things, like freelance income taxes.) It seems very beautiful on the outside, but in the end it seems like the service offered is a way for people to earn money without passing through the same hoops as others do. Seen from afar it seems innovation, but think again. It's unskilled people being paid for (what is usually) highly skilled work. Yes, I mean driving someone to a place.
    - Crito 13y ago
      > Every time I see an Uber post related to Europe I wonder if in the US taxis don't need to pay the outrageous license fees (in addition to a whole lot of other things, like freelance income taxes.) A single NYC taxi medallion goes for millions of dollars: http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/about/average_medallion_price.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/about/average_medallion_pri... Most Taxi drivers have to rent one; which is not cheap. The medallion owners get to sit on their asses in rake in the cash. Your concern is misplaced.
      - 13y ago
schiffern 13y ago
The smart services will leverage this. "The quickest pickup allowed by law!" Schedule pickups in exactly 15 minutes with one touch. Countdown timer on the app, etc.
mentos 13y ago
What are the penalties for ignoring this rule?
- jamespo 13y ago
  Guillotine
bosma 13y ago
http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html
southpawgirl 13y ago
Last October, France passed a bill against heavy discounting on books. They have this thing, to protect the existing market order against the disruption caused by new channels. My first reaction is always to think that it's ridiculous; but then again maybe all those measures are only meant to minimize the casualties of progress, more than just being an obstacle to progress.
- icelancer 13y ago
  >but then again maybe all those measures are only meant to minimize the casualties of progress, more than just being an obstacle to progress. They are one in the same.
  - southpawgirl 13y ago
    True, and as I said, it does seem ridiculous to me. At the same time, I understand that progress has often broader implications that might appear as a price too high to pay for the society. So, I just abstain from casting stones in that case; even if on the whole I am quite happy I am not in France anymore.
auggierose 13y ago
So, can you get BOTH a taxi license and work for Uber ?
- Signez 13y ago
  A taxi license cost over 240,000 euros in Paris.
- letstryagain 13y ago
  Yes, I have seen traditional taxis drivers logged into Uber.
kailuowang 13y ago
I wonder when they will introduce a bill to force Google to wait 15 seconds to serve search results.
- waps 13y ago
  Don't say that. It scares me.
sgdesign 13y ago
Maybe I'm not as smart as french lawmakers, but I can't really figure out how they'd even enforce this?
- Crito 13y ago
  Either occasional stings to take make an example of people, or using it as a possible additional charge to pile on in situations where there is already an investigation. Most laws do not have vigilant enforcement. For example, (barring illegal searches or likely illegal 'stop and frisk') how do you enforce possession laws?
  - sgdesign 13y ago
    As a french person, I would be pretty upset to think my taxes are going towards paying people to order Ubers and make sure they take at least 15 minutes to arrive. It almost seems like something out of a Monty Python sketch.
    - Crito 13y ago
      That would be absurd. I expect that in practice this law will not be enforced by itself. For example: If Uber drivers start illegally parking in common pickup areas waiting for a call, then picking people up within seconds, then this law will probably be the sort of thing that they use to slam the drivers harder.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      For a parallel example in the US, law enforcement here routinely sends underage people to attempt to purchase cigarettes or alcohol, in order to ensure that merchants are following the law around ID checks. This strikes me as similar, for better or for worse. (I'd vote worse, personally.)
nraynaud 13y ago
somehow I don't feel that we really need Uber, but simply more taxi plates. Uber is just a radio taxi, it's trying to use technology where the problem is legal.
raverbashing 13y ago
15 minutes? That's nothing And you'll just order it 15min before your intended departure time "In France, you have to pay a hefty price to get your taxi license" How much does a taxi medallion cost in NYC again?
nationcrafting 13y ago
France is one of the most frustrating countries a young entrepreneur could ever work in. As soon as you find some way to bypass the rigidity of the system to create something new, to make life easier for people and actually create wealth, the octopus grows another arm to strangle you with. It just sucks the energy right out of you... The UK may have its problems, but it's a breath of fresh air by comparison. It's no wonder 600,000 French people now live in London (and that's just the ones who registered at the embassy).
- elag 13y ago
  And no wonder that tens of thousands of Britons own second homes in France and many more holiday there.
  - nationcrafting 13y ago
    Exactly. When the system allows you to create wealth, and keep enough of it to make it worth the effort, more people can afford to buy second homes in sunny places.
danielharan 13y ago
I can't wait to see what creative solution all these officials will come up with when people start sharing their self-driving cars.
- thisosound 13y ago
  The same that is happening in the States; they'll make it illegal.

61 points by bjenik 13y ago

An idea to "fix" this: In the beginning (after signing up) a bunch of orders are created and sent out to the drivers. The orders technically exist, but the drivers are told to not show up right now. Then, at least 15 minutes later, the user can tap a "show up now" button which tells the driver to actually pick up the user. So in the end you have to wait 15 minutes when using the service for the first time, but after that it is a lot faster because the orders created in the beginning can be "activated" immediately.

objclxt 13y ago
You could argue that it's Uber's attempts to "fix" pesky regulations that have got them into this mess in the first place. I doubt trying to circumvent this in the way you describe would really make the regulators any more sympathetic towards Uber. There's an interesting business case study to be done between Uber and Hailo (based in London, far more popular there than Uber, expanding overseas), the latter of which was founded by cab drivers themselves and has taken a far more 'softly softly' approach to compliance (arguably at the expense of revenue, but the benefit of not having to deal with this kind of thing).
- true_religion 13y ago
  Well the point of circumvention is not to engender sympathy. It's to find a legal loophole wherein even if the regulators hate you, they can't pursue you.
dasmithii 13y ago
This is an interesting idea; however, it seems that it wouldn't necessarily help. I'm uncertain whether the orders you speak of are reservations, or phonies with the purpose of circumventing the new bill. If the former is the case, drivers would still be unable to serve the greatest need - spontaneous rides. The latter could potentially work, but surely it would be caught eventually.
freyrs3 13y ago
That's a workaround, not a fix.
- onedev 13y ago
  A"hack" if you will..... Sorry I will stop using that word now.

spindritf 13y ago

Presumably, the taxi industry is "heavily regulated" for the benefit of the customer, then shouldn't customers flock to this excellent, regulated service on their own? Why are those artificial and arbitrary limits necessary?

officemonkey 13y ago
The last time I went to Brasserie Flo after a concert at New Morning I waited 90 minutes at a taxi stand for cabs behind a 50-foot line of other late-night revelers. Cabs came 10 minutes apart. I have never waited so long for a cab in a major city. The industry may be heavily regulated, but it does not seem to be rigged in favor of the customer. If I knew I would get a ride in 15 minutes, I would snap at this in every city I travel to.
diminoten 13y ago
Not necessarily, not if some companies are committing fraud, or creating a monopoly.
southpawgirl 13y ago
In some Italian cities the situation is no different: taxi licenses are issued only on a fixed, limited number and are sometimes inherited from father to child, often sold for mind-boggling amounts (comparable to the price of a house). The service as a result is quite crap: long waits, high prices per km and all the most contrived surcharges you can think of (5 additional Euros for the airport and some tourist destinations, etc). Each time a deregulation is proposed (and it does happen) there are immense backlashes from a small category that would be not only stripped of a privilege, but actually, properly ruined: some cabbies have to take 10 yrs mortgages to buy a license. It's a legacy state of affairs that carries on only because it's difficult to remove, not because it's of actual advantage to anyone.
- gioele 13y ago
  > high prices per km In Italy, and in other European countries, the taxi prices are set by the city councils, not the taxi drivers.

w1ntermute 13y ago

...and they wonder why their economy is shit.

_cbb1 13y ago
+1 to this.

_red 13y ago

Must each taxi driver also be named Harrison Bergeron?

mehphp 13y ago

"Back in October, the French government mentioned this piece of legislation as these new services would hurt traditional cab drivers." So? That's how the market and progress works. If a service can't stand up on it's own, it doesn't need to exist.

thenmar 13y ago
What a meaningless platitude. The world isn't quite as simple as that.
- randyrand 13y ago
  Sure, but in regards to creative destruction it is almost always true in my experience.
- RBerenguel 13y ago
  Every time I see an Uber post related to Europe I wonder if in the US taxis don't need to pay the outrageous license fees (in addition to a whole lot of other things, like freelance income taxes.) It seems very beautiful on the outside, but in the end it seems like the service offered is a way for people to earn money without passing through the same hoops as others do. Seen from afar it seems innovation, but think again. It's unskilled people being paid for (what is usually) highly skilled work. Yes, I mean driving someone to a place.
  - Crito 13y ago
    > Every time I see an Uber post related to Europe I wonder if in the US taxis don't need to pay the outrageous license fees (in addition to a whole lot of other things, like freelance income taxes.) A single NYC taxi medallion goes for millions of dollars: http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/about/average_medallion_price.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/about/average_medallion_pri... Most Taxi drivers have to rent one; which is not cheap. The medallion owners get to sit on their asses in rake in the cash. Your concern is misplaced.
    - 13y ago

schiffern 13y ago

The smart services will leverage this. "The quickest pickup allowed by law!" Schedule pickups in exactly 15 minutes with one touch. Countdown timer on the app, etc.

mentos 13y ago

What are the penalties for ignoring this rule?

jamespo 13y ago
Guillotine

bosma 13y ago

http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html http://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html

southpawgirl 13y ago

Last October, France passed a bill against heavy discounting on books. They have this thing, to protect the existing market order against the disruption caused by new channels. My first reaction is always to think that it's ridiculous; but then again maybe all those measures are only meant to minimize the casualties of progress, more than just being an obstacle to progress.

icelancer 13y ago
>but then again maybe all those measures are only meant to minimize the casualties of progress, more than just being an obstacle to progress. They are one in the same.
- southpawgirl 13y ago
  True, and as I said, it does seem ridiculous to me. At the same time, I understand that progress has often broader implications that might appear as a price too high to pay for the society. So, I just abstain from casting stones in that case; even if on the whole I am quite happy I am not in France anymore.

auggierose 13y ago

So, can you get BOTH a taxi license and work for Uber ?

Signez 13y ago
A taxi license cost over 240,000 euros in Paris.
letstryagain 13y ago
Yes, I have seen traditional taxis drivers logged into Uber.

kailuowang 13y ago

I wonder when they will introduce a bill to force Google to wait 15 seconds to serve search results.

waps 13y ago
Don't say that. It scares me.

sgdesign 13y ago

Maybe I'm not as smart as french lawmakers, but I can't really figure out how they'd even enforce this?

Crito 13y ago
Either occasional stings to take make an example of people, or using it as a possible additional charge to pile on in situations where there is already an investigation. Most laws do not have vigilant enforcement. For example, (barring illegal searches or likely illegal 'stop and frisk') how do you enforce possession laws?
- sgdesign 13y ago
  As a french person, I would be pretty upset to think my taxes are going towards paying people to order Ubers and make sure they take at least 15 minutes to arrive. It almost seems like something out of a Monty Python sketch.
  - Crito 13y ago
    That would be absurd. I expect that in practice this law will not be enforced by itself. For example: If Uber drivers start illegally parking in common pickup areas waiting for a call, then picking people up within seconds, then this law will probably be the sort of thing that they use to slam the drivers harder.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    For a parallel example in the US, law enforcement here routinely sends underage people to attempt to purchase cigarettes or alcohol, in order to ensure that merchants are following the law around ID checks. This strikes me as similar, for better or for worse. (I'd vote worse, personally.)

nraynaud 13y ago

somehow I don't feel that we really need Uber, but simply more taxi plates. Uber is just a radio taxi, it's trying to use technology where the problem is legal.

raverbashing 13y ago

15 minutes? That's nothing And you'll just order it 15min before your intended departure time "In France, you have to pay a hefty price to get your taxi license" How much does a taxi medallion cost in NYC again?

nationcrafting 13y ago

France is one of the most frustrating countries a young entrepreneur could ever work in. As soon as you find some way to bypass the rigidity of the system to create something new, to make life easier for people and actually create wealth, the octopus grows another arm to strangle you with. It just sucks the energy right out of you... The UK may have its problems, but it's a breath of fresh air by comparison. It's no wonder 600,000 French people now live in London (and that's just the ones who registered at the embassy).

elag 13y ago
And no wonder that tens of thousands of Britons own second homes in France and many more holiday there.
- nationcrafting 13y ago
  Exactly. When the system allows you to create wealth, and keep enough of it to make it worth the effort, more people can afford to buy second homes in sunny places.

danielharan 13y ago

I can't wait to see what creative solution all these officials will come up with when people start sharing their self-driving cars.

thisosound 13y ago
The same that is happening in the States; they'll make it illegal.