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African-American women are severely underrepresented in IT, so this charity is addressing that problem. They are teaching children a skill. If that really bothe

African-American women are severely underrepresented in IT, so this charity is addressing that problem. They are teaching children a skill. If that really bothers you, take a minute to reflect on yourself.

nhangen 13y ago
This is the argument that always baffles me. There are many reasons for that imbalance, just as there are many reasons for imbalance in other industries (sometimes in the opposite direction). I coach youth sports, and many times the kids on my teams come from poor families. When I talk to them about their interests, not once have they mentioned or indicated that they would be prevented from pursuing that interest.
- lsiclait 13y ago
  Growing up in the United States, I was often told that there were certain things that I could not do because I would face a glass ceiling due to my skin color. Reading history books it was clear that this was true for the people who came before me. Looking at the people who were in the positions I wanted to attain, it was clear that something was preventing people who look like me from succeeding in those fields. And listening to the comments I received from my peers, it was clear that I was not perceived in the same way as others. I can't speak for anyone other than myself. But, from my experience, it is helpful to know that people who look like you can succeed in this world.
  - dopamean 13y ago
    Well you can speak for me because I was going to write basically this same post. I often felt this way growing up.
  - nhangen 13y ago
    Who told you these things? Obviously, that's where the problem starts, and though I've never experienced that (nor has anyone I know), I can't deny that it exists.
    - lsiclait 13y ago
      Older members of my family. They simply related to me their experiences living in the United States. Unfortunately the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was not that long ago and the world didn't change overnight with its passage. And they received similar teachings from their parents who dealt with even greater injustices before that.
- huxley 13y ago
  Depends on the age, I grew up with lots of poor kids that thought they'd be able to live their dreams, then had reality harshly shoved in their faces. My family was temporarily poor, we had resources that few of my friends had. Both of my parents had advanced educations and my parents received inheritances that helped them start a small business. My childhood friends had nothing to fall back on, of the ones that survived into adulthood, most of them ended up poorer than their parents.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
yetanotherphd 13y ago
>They are teaching children a skill. If that really bothers you, take a minute to reflect on yourself. It's not the teaching of the skill in itself that is problematic, or even (in my opinion) the attempt to make up for various sources of disadvantage. What I object to is the idea that it is of great importance to eliminate racial and gender disparities, or that our society is incredibly bad because these disparities exist. This idea is what drives articles like this to the front page of HN. Racial and gender disparities exist for a number of reasons, not simply the oppression of one group by another. Different groups have different cultures, interests and possibly innate abilities. I don't think anyone here would want to instantly eliminate the cultural differences between Black and White people. The claim that the differences between groups are solely attributable to disadvantage and oppression is simply a claim. It is backed up by nothing but moralizing and posturing (note the number of posts here disparaging White "kids"). I also don't think that it is possible to entirely eliminate the disadvantage that minority groups often suffer, simply because people by nature tend to favor people who are similar to themselves, by any measure. I certainly wouldn't consider it wise to go to a random country, say Israel, and mandate that all cultures and viewpoints were to have equal status in that country, and that the majority would have to give up on all aspects of their culture that were not sufficiently inclusive or friendly to minorities.
- countrybama24 13y ago
  Ah, the classic appeal to "innate abilities" and "culture" to explain why an oppressed group is disadvantaged. I guess you're asking an epistemogical question of how we can ever really "know" if oppression (slavery, sexual violence, genocide, idk how much history you've read) would explain inequality upon those lines. I don't know the answer, but I'm probably gonna go with occams razer on this one.
  - yetanotherphd 13y ago
    As you imply, it is a very difficult question to answer. But isn't cultural variation often used to explain the advantageous social and economic position of Jews and East Asians in American society? And if cultural variation can explain this, is there some in principal reason why it cannot also explain disadvantage? Again, I am not saying it explains all disadvantage that Blacks experience, just that I do not think oppression explains all of this disadvantage either.

nhangen 13y ago

This is the argument that always baffles me. There are many reasons for that imbalance, just as there are many reasons for imbalance in other industries (sometimes in the opposite direction). I coach youth sports, and many times the kids on my teams come from poor families. When I talk to them about their interests, not once have they mentioned or indicated that they would be prevented from pursuing that interest.

lsiclait 13y ago
Growing up in the United States, I was often told that there were certain things that I could not do because I would face a glass ceiling due to my skin color. Reading history books it was clear that this was true for the people who came before me. Looking at the people who were in the positions I wanted to attain, it was clear that something was preventing people who look like me from succeeding in those fields. And listening to the comments I received from my peers, it was clear that I was not perceived in the same way as others. I can't speak for anyone other than myself. But, from my experience, it is helpful to know that people who look like you can succeed in this world.
- dopamean 13y ago
  Well you can speak for me because I was going to write basically this same post. I often felt this way growing up.
- nhangen 13y ago
  Who told you these things? Obviously, that's where the problem starts, and though I've never experienced that (nor has anyone I know), I can't deny that it exists.
  - lsiclait 13y ago
    Older members of my family. They simply related to me their experiences living in the United States. Unfortunately the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was not that long ago and the world didn't change overnight with its passage. And they received similar teachings from their parents who dealt with even greater injustices before that.
huxley 13y ago
Depends on the age, I grew up with lots of poor kids that thought they'd be able to live their dreams, then had reality harshly shoved in their faces. My family was temporarily poor, we had resources that few of my friends had. Both of my parents had advanced educations and my parents received inheritances that helped them start a small business. My childhood friends had nothing to fall back on, of the ones that survived into adulthood, most of them ended up poorer than their parents.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

yetanotherphd 13y ago

>They are teaching children a skill. If that really bothers you, take a minute to reflect on yourself. It's not the teaching of the skill in itself that is problematic, or even (in my opinion) the attempt to make up for various sources of disadvantage. What I object to is the idea that it is of great importance to eliminate racial and gender disparities, or that our society is incredibly bad because these disparities exist. This idea is what drives articles like this to the front page of HN. Racial and gender disparities exist for a number of reasons, not simply the oppression of one group by another. Different groups have different cultures, interests and possibly innate abilities. I don't think anyone here would want to instantly eliminate the cultural differences between Black and White people. The claim that the differences between groups are solely attributable to disadvantage and oppression is simply a claim. It is backed up by nothing but moralizing and posturing (note the number of posts here disparaging White "kids"). I also don't think that it is possible to entirely eliminate the disadvantage that minority groups often suffer, simply because people by nature tend to favor people who are similar to themselves, by any measure. I certainly wouldn't consider it wise to go to a random country, say Israel, and mandate that all cultures and viewpoints were to have equal status in that country, and that the majority would have to give up on all aspects of their culture that were not sufficiently inclusive or friendly to minorities.

countrybama24 13y ago
Ah, the classic appeal to "innate abilities" and "culture" to explain why an oppressed group is disadvantaged. I guess you're asking an epistemogical question of how we can ever really "know" if oppression (slavery, sexual violence, genocide, idk how much history you've read) would explain inequality upon those lines. I don't know the answer, but I'm probably gonna go with occams razer on this one.
- yetanotherphd 13y ago
  As you imply, it is a very difficult question to answer. But isn't cultural variation often used to explain the advantageous social and economic position of Jews and East Asians in American society? And if cultural variation can explain this, is there some in principal reason why it cannot also explain disadvantage? Again, I am not saying it explains all disadvantage that Blacks experience, just that I do not think oppression explains all of this disadvantage either.