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Gotta love US and its inverse racism. "White girls code" would be persecuted like KKK is back in business, but "Black girls code" is all good. That's not right.

isomorph 13y ago
I think that's because black people have historically been "unluckier" than white people in the US. Do you feel the same way about the sexist component of this? Should I be annoyed that "Boys code" would be persecuted but "Girls code" is all good? (I'm not saying there are any correct answers to my questions)
- rdl 13y ago
  Also in general poor neighborhoods are fairly segregated by race, in the US, so just by picking specific cities you're accomplishing much of the racial discrimination. I don't think it's a big deal in this case, but in general poor people in Detroit are black; poor people in inland empire are white/hispanic.
- _delirium 13y ago
  I think if some demographics are heavily underrepresented in a field, it makes some sense to target programs specifically to them. This does happen with regards to men as well, if that's the worry—in areas where men are underrepresented. For example there is a professional association specifically to support men in nursing and recruit more men into the profession: http://aamn.org/ http://aamn.org/
- eropple 13y ago
  > I think that's because black people have historically been "unluckier" than white people in the US. "Have historically been unluckier than", "are systematically objectified socially and repressed economically by"--I understand your typo, though, the keys are so close to each other on the keyboard. (The tenses are important, too. It isn't new, but it isn't dead.)
  - isomorph 13y ago
    Tell me about it. I was just trying to put it in blue pill white people language
    - eropple 13y ago
      I figured as much. =) It is something that I think is difficult to soft-pedal, though, and still encompass what it actually means. I tend to think most of HN hasn't even the slightest idea, which makes me a bit sad.
- gizmo686 13y ago
  I tend to give sexist language a pass because of how gendered English is (although not as gendered as many other languages). However, in this case "Kids code" seems like a viable option, so on thinking about it, the gendered nature of the title also annoys me, although my habbit of ignoring gendered language makes this a largely intellectual annoyance. Also, the "black" in the title has the added problem of being superfluous feeling. "Code" does not convey what the group does. "Girls Code" conveys pretty well the this is a group of (female) children programmers. "Black Girls Code" conveys no additional information other than the fact that is is aimed at black girls specifically.
nilved 13y ago
Literally every other coding event is "white men code," so don't get so flustered when there's one single one that's not for you. I expect better from Hacker News.
- nawitus 13y ago
  An event which is free for all is not a white men code event, even if most of the participans were white men.
  - eropple 13y ago
    You are demonstrating unfamiliarity with the difference between de jure and de facto. When people of other demographics feel uncomfortable being there because the audience is predominantly white and predominantly male, it is effectively exclusionary even if there isn't a single word to the contrary. That doesn't make it your fault. It does mean it's something you have to make a real effort to understand and accept in light of the privilege you have.
    - nawitus 13y ago
      >When people of other demographics feel uncomfortable being there because the audience is predominantly white and predominantly male, it is effectively exclusionary even if there isn't a single word to the contrary. Do black people feel uncomfortable being with white people? That sounds racist and segregatory. We shouldn't turn all events into equal distributions, we should instead make people feel comfortable with being with all kinds of other people.
      - eropple 13y ago
        Many black people feel uncomfortable in environments dominated by white people because of the cultural and social domination by white people, both historically and in the current day. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand.
  - gress 13y ago
crystaln 13y ago
How many black girls who code do you know? There is a sufficient deficit such that there are almost no role models and this sort affirmative action makes sense.
- kirillzubovsky 13y ago
  Our president is black. Are you saying that he is therefor not a role model for any white men in the country? Are you saying Barack Obama could only be the role model for black people? That's insane, right? Much the same way it's insane to imply that a white/chinese/indian .... woman cannot be a role model for black girls.
  - hackinthebochs 13y ago
    "Looks like me" has a strong psychological impact, especially in environments where the "default" tends to be not-like-me.
    - countrybama24 13y ago
      And when other agents use appearance to form judgements about one another. Part of white/male privilege is having role models that look like you. It makes you feel and be treated as more of an "in-group" member. This shouldn't really be controversial, it's human nature. The response (Black Girls Code) is rational and I think it's sorely needed.
  - crystaln 13y ago
    1) There have been a few white male presidents before Barack Obama, in case you didn't know. 2) Many people voted for Obama at least in part because he was black, including myself, because they felt it was time to demonstrate we could and should elect a non-white-male president. 3) The president is a very special singular office, whereas there can be an almost unlimited number of coders. Affirmative action for the role of president or elected political office doesn't make a lot of sense (unless it's done by choice of the electorate.) 4) Indeed Barack Obama is a role model for black men. He showed that a black man (and a non-white-man) CAN be president, something hardly anyone thought was possible in our lifetime prior to his rise to prominence. 5) While a white man could be a role model for a black girl in some sense, people identify with those who share a cultural and racial heritage. While on a certain theoretical level, what you say makes sense, it is not true in the actual world in which we exist.
gizmo686 13y ago
This isn't inverse racism, it is just racism.
gress 13y ago
Nope. "White girls code" isn't being persecuted but "Black Girls Code" is here and now.
kenjackson 13y ago
There are "girls code" events which are dominated by white females. There's no need to have one specifically for white females, except to exclude other races, There is a need for Black Girls Code as an effort to bring them into the fold. Once they are overrepresented as coders, I'd expect to see these events disappear. Is this really so complicated for hackers to understand?

isomorph 13y ago

I think that's because black people have historically been "unluckier" than white people in the US. Do you feel the same way about the sexist component of this? Should I be annoyed that "Boys code" would be persecuted but "Girls code" is all good? (I'm not saying there are any correct answers to my questions)

rdl 13y ago
Also in general poor neighborhoods are fairly segregated by race, in the US, so just by picking specific cities you're accomplishing much of the racial discrimination. I don't think it's a big deal in this case, but in general poor people in Detroit are black; poor people in inland empire are white/hispanic.
_delirium 13y ago
I think if some demographics are heavily underrepresented in a field, it makes some sense to target programs specifically to them. This does happen with regards to men as well, if that's the worry—in areas where men are underrepresented. For example there is a professional association specifically to support men in nursing and recruit more men into the profession: http://aamn.org/ http://aamn.org/
eropple 13y ago
> I think that's because black people have historically been "unluckier" than white people in the US. "Have historically been unluckier than", "are systematically objectified socially and repressed economically by"--I understand your typo, though, the keys are so close to each other on the keyboard. (The tenses are important, too. It isn't new, but it isn't dead.)
- isomorph 13y ago
  Tell me about it. I was just trying to put it in blue pill white people language
  - eropple 13y ago
    I figured as much. =) It is something that I think is difficult to soft-pedal, though, and still encompass what it actually means. I tend to think most of HN hasn't even the slightest idea, which makes me a bit sad.
gizmo686 13y ago
I tend to give sexist language a pass because of how gendered English is (although not as gendered as many other languages). However, in this case "Kids code" seems like a viable option, so on thinking about it, the gendered nature of the title also annoys me, although my habbit of ignoring gendered language makes this a largely intellectual annoyance. Also, the "black" in the title has the added problem of being superfluous feeling. "Code" does not convey what the group does. "Girls Code" conveys pretty well the this is a group of (female) children programmers. "Black Girls Code" conveys no additional information other than the fact that is is aimed at black girls specifically.

nilved 13y ago

Literally every other coding event is "white men code," so don't get so flustered when there's one single one that's not for you. I expect better from Hacker News.

nawitus 13y ago
An event which is free for all is not a white men code event, even if most of the participans were white men.
- eropple 13y ago
  You are demonstrating unfamiliarity with the difference between de jure and de facto. When people of other demographics feel uncomfortable being there because the audience is predominantly white and predominantly male, it is effectively exclusionary even if there isn't a single word to the contrary. That doesn't make it your fault. It does mean it's something you have to make a real effort to understand and accept in light of the privilege you have.
  - nawitus 13y ago
    >When people of other demographics feel uncomfortable being there because the audience is predominantly white and predominantly male, it is effectively exclusionary even if there isn't a single word to the contrary. Do black people feel uncomfortable being with white people? That sounds racist and segregatory. We shouldn't turn all events into equal distributions, we should instead make people feel comfortable with being with all kinds of other people.
    - eropple 13y ago
      Many black people feel uncomfortable in environments dominated by white people because of the cultural and social domination by white people, both historically and in the current day. I don't understand why this is so difficult for you to understand.
- gress 13y ago

crystaln 13y ago

How many black girls who code do you know? There is a sufficient deficit such that there are almost no role models and this sort affirmative action makes sense.

kirillzubovsky 13y ago
Our president is black. Are you saying that he is therefor not a role model for any white men in the country? Are you saying Barack Obama could only be the role model for black people? That's insane, right? Much the same way it's insane to imply that a white/chinese/indian .... woman cannot be a role model for black girls.
- hackinthebochs 13y ago
  "Looks like me" has a strong psychological impact, especially in environments where the "default" tends to be not-like-me.
  - countrybama24 13y ago
    And when other agents use appearance to form judgements about one another. Part of white/male privilege is having role models that look like you. It makes you feel and be treated as more of an "in-group" member. This shouldn't really be controversial, it's human nature. The response (Black Girls Code) is rational and I think it's sorely needed.
- crystaln 13y ago
  1) There have been a few white male presidents before Barack Obama, in case you didn't know. 2) Many people voted for Obama at least in part because he was black, including myself, because they felt it was time to demonstrate we could and should elect a non-white-male president. 3) The president is a very special singular office, whereas there can be an almost unlimited number of coders. Affirmative action for the role of president or elected political office doesn't make a lot of sense (unless it's done by choice of the electorate.) 4) Indeed Barack Obama is a role model for black men. He showed that a black man (and a non-white-man) CAN be president, something hardly anyone thought was possible in our lifetime prior to his rise to prominence. 5) While a white man could be a role model for a black girl in some sense, people identify with those who share a cultural and racial heritage. While on a certain theoretical level, what you say makes sense, it is not true in the actual world in which we exist.

gizmo686 13y ago

This isn't inverse racism, it is just racism.

gress 13y ago

Nope. "White girls code" isn't being persecuted but "Black Girls Code" is here and now.

kenjackson 13y ago

There are "girls code" events which are dominated by white females. There's no need to have one specifically for white females, except to exclude other races, There is a need for Black Girls Code as an effort to bring them into the fold. Once they are overrepresented as coders, I'd expect to see these events disappear. Is this really so complicated for hackers to understand?