5 ms·

You looked at Kotlin? As a C# developer I'm loving the language and it is x-platform. And that's despite my assumed bias, because I work at JetBrains.

by hhariri 13y ago

talloaktrees 13y ago
I've been really impressed by Kotlin after trying it out for a week. I didn't have huge problems with Java (I accept it for what it is) but it really is nice to user a more modern Language. (note: I've never tried Scala)
_random_ 13y ago
Did you re-implement ReSharper or any of your _major_ products in Kotlin?
bartwe 13y ago
I want to like it but the lack of value type structs and other GC avoidance features will keep its performance at java levels.
- dodyg 13y ago
  And for wide variety of server side applications, Java level performance is awesome
trimbo 13y ago
Kotlin seems nice but when's Kotlin going to be "for real"? What I mean by that is, when will it go 1.0? When will we see a major project from Jetbrains implemented in it? Kotlin has been around for a couple of years now and Jetbrains still won't answer these questions as far as I can see[1]. [1] - http://devnet.jetbrains.com/message/5490337?tstart=0 http://devnet.jetbrains.com/message/5490337?tstart=0
- dodyg 13y ago
  You can start with the latest build. It is that good. There is no need to wait for the 1.0 version.
  - trimbo 13y ago
    I'm sure it's good. It's just not for real yet. * If you read the link, there is no guarantee of backwards compatibility to the current point within future releases. This is why they're still in milestones. * Jetbrains has yet to show us that they are, themselves, committed to Kotlin by implementing something major in it. * They won't provide a timeline for 1.0. I love thinking about and toying with new languages, but when it comes to sitting down and doing stuff, I need to know the environment has enough commitment such that I don't have immediate code rot.
  - EpicEng 13y ago
    So you would use a pre-1.0 version with no guarantees of backward compatibility to implement something real? Something that a business depends on, not just something you can toss up on your GitHub page to look cool? I would fire you as soon as we tried to update to a new version and had to spend weeks fixing your now broken code.
pswenson 13y ago
kotlin looks cool. But it's missing some minor things that would make it much more friendly: * no regex literals * a little verbose(instead of [] for arrays, it's "Arrays") * hashes IMO should be JSON * why doesn't null evaluate to false? God I hate writing if (a != null). I'm much happier in javascript/ruby/groovy land where if can type "if (!a)" or "unless a" or even cooler "raise Exception("a should not be null") unless a" * why did the world standardize on camelCase instead of snake_case ? the world was wrong about this! basically a little more javascript and ruby influence would have been good. make the language more "fun" and expressive. There is no equiv of the ||= operator or | for joining arrays, etc But the big things it's missing are more ecosystem features: * REPL * an alternative build system (please don't make anyone use maven!) should be an interpreted scripting language. I'd look at Rake or Gradle for inspiration * rails like web framework
- Sssnake 13y ago
  >kotlin looks cool except they should do all kinds of dumb stuff as if it were a scripting language It is a statically typed language designed to try to drag java programmers kicking and screaming into the 1970s. Virtually everything you listed would be a bad change. Just use a language that is actually similar to what you want.
  - pswenson 13y ago
    This attitude is why java is stuck in the stone ages. Any ideas coming from the dynamically typed world are "dumb".
    - Sssnake 13y ago
      No, dumb ideas are dumb. It has nothing to do with java. Haskell is statically typed, and it is far more advanced than the languages you are thinking of when you think advanced.
      - pswenson 13y ago
        which ideas are dumb and why? btw being a jerk doesn't help your case. lesson in civil discourse by example: "I don't think that a ||= operator is a good idea because XXX"

You looked at Kotlin? As a C# developer I'm loving the language and it is x-platform. And that's despite my assumed bias, because I work at JetBrains.

by hhariri 13y ago

You looked at Kotlin? As a C# developer I'm loving the language and it is x-platform. And that's despite my assumed bias, because I work at JetBrains.

talloaktrees 13y ago

I've been really impressed by Kotlin after trying it out for a week. I didn't have huge problems with Java (I accept it for what it is) but it really is nice to user a more modern Language. (note: I've never tried Scala)

_random_ 13y ago

Did you re-implement ReSharper or any of your _major_ products in Kotlin?

bartwe 13y ago

I want to like it but the lack of value type structs and other GC avoidance features will keep its performance at java levels.

dodyg 13y ago
And for wide variety of server side applications, Java level performance is awesome

trimbo 13y ago

Kotlin seems nice but when's Kotlin going to be "for real"? What I mean by that is, when will it go 1.0? When will we see a major project from Jetbrains implemented in it? Kotlin has been around for a couple of years now and Jetbrains still won't answer these questions as far as I can see[1]. [1] - http://devnet.jetbrains.com/message/5490337?tstart=0 http://devnet.jetbrains.com/message/5490337?tstart=0

dodyg 13y ago
You can start with the latest build. It is that good. There is no need to wait for the 1.0 version.
- trimbo 13y ago
  I'm sure it's good. It's just not for real yet. * If you read the link, there is no guarantee of backwards compatibility to the current point within future releases. This is why they're still in milestones. * Jetbrains has yet to show us that they are, themselves, committed to Kotlin by implementing something major in it. * They won't provide a timeline for 1.0. I love thinking about and toying with new languages, but when it comes to sitting down and doing stuff, I need to know the environment has enough commitment such that I don't have immediate code rot.
- EpicEng 13y ago
  So you would use a pre-1.0 version with no guarantees of backward compatibility to implement something real? Something that a business depends on, not just something you can toss up on your GitHub page to look cool? I would fire you as soon as we tried to update to a new version and had to spend weeks fixing your now broken code.

pswenson 13y ago

kotlin looks cool. But it's missing some minor things that would make it much more friendly: * no regex literals * a little verbose(instead of [] for arrays, it's "Arrays") * hashes IMO should be JSON * why doesn't null evaluate to false? God I hate writing if (a != null). I'm much happier in javascript/ruby/groovy land where if can type "if (!a)" or "unless a" or even cooler "raise Exception("a should not be null") unless a" * why did the world standardize on camelCase instead of snake_case ? the world was wrong about this! basically a little more javascript and ruby influence would have been good. make the language more "fun" and expressive. There is no equiv of the ||= operator or | for joining arrays, etc But the big things it's missing are more ecosystem features: * REPL * an alternative build system (please don't make anyone use maven!) should be an interpreted scripting language. I'd look at Rake or Gradle for inspiration * rails like web framework

Sssnake 13y ago
>kotlin looks cool except they should do all kinds of dumb stuff as if it were a scripting language It is a statically typed language designed to try to drag java programmers kicking and screaming into the 1970s. Virtually everything you listed would be a bad change. Just use a language that is actually similar to what you want.
- pswenson 13y ago
  This attitude is why java is stuck in the stone ages. Any ideas coming from the dynamically typed world are "dumb".
  - Sssnake 13y ago
    No, dumb ideas are dumb. It has nothing to do with java. Haskell is statically typed, and it is far more advanced than the languages you are thinking of when you think advanced.
    - pswenson 13y ago
      which ideas are dumb and why? btw being a jerk doesn't help your case. lesson in civil discourse by example: "I don't think that a ||= operator is a good idea because XXX"