4 ms·

I'm going to ramble a little below, so I'll get to the point up front: is there even a new language here? I don't mean in the sense that Rust seems to attempt w

by dmunoz 13y ago

I'm going to ramble a little below, so I'll get to the point up front: is there even a new language here? I don't mean in the sense that Rust seems to attempt what is being hand waved about in the submission, but that the linked blog post states > I’ve given a few glimpses into this work over the years. In the months to come, I will start sharing more details. My goal is to eventually open source this thing, but... We'll have to wait and see, I guess. I also found this quote a bit odd > There are other candidates early in their lives, too, most notably Rust and D. But hey, my team works at Microsoft, where there is ample C# talent and community just an arm’s length away. D is hardly early in its life, but there is something about the whole "my team works at Microsoft, where there is ample C# talent" bit that is so very Microsoft, and I don't mean because it mentions Microsoft and C#, but in the sense of how they tend to work there. At least, this is my outside view, based mostly on what they promise vs. actually deliver in the C++ world, and where their interest constantly seem to fall short. Of course, you can't blame Microsoft for being interested in advancing Microsoft. With that out of the way, and being up front that the rest of this comment is unnecessary, I wonder why this is on the front page of Lambda the Ultimate. It's become a favourite site of mine as I've recently become a lot more interested in language implementations. I'm certain the comments on the article will make it worthy, but as it stands, and with my comments above out of the way, I don't see what it offers. It's just hand waving about some ideal language that doesn't (fully) exist yet. The actual answer to my question of why it is on the front page is because Charles Torre can make front page posts, but just be aware that he works at Microsoft and hypes up their behaviour (that I'm admittedly not so pleased with) often. I know he is, like me, actually interested in language implementations, and has made far more worthy contributions on LtU than I ever have, but the front page of LtU is usually a bit more grounded.

ehudla 13y ago
For the record, Charles didn't post it to the home page. I promoted it there, since I thought (correctly, it turns out) that it might be of wide interest. So all the blame for that goes to me.
- dmunoz 13y ago
  It's actually nice to see activity on the LtU front page. The two other posts I would assign to the same category as the submitted one would be xkcd: Functional [0] and The Three Laws of Programming Language Design [1] posts. They both had good discussion, which is where a lot of value at LtU comes from. I even wrote my own little script to make the expanded, threaded list of comments collapsible to consume them more to my liking. To be fair, I was being unjustly negative because of my worry about how Microsoft treats such projects. Admittedly, after sleeping on it, I don't see it to be as big as a deal as I did last night. It'll be interesting to see what Microsoft produces, and we'll still have the open and approachable Rust regardless. I find Charles reply to your comment about the HN thread odd though. He says > It's interesting, though not unexpected, that folks are already comparing this language to D, Rust, and Go which also aim for a nirvana (safe, productive, fast, open) without really having many of the details required to make intelligent comparisons (on reddit, somebody made a post asserting this language is MS's _answer_ to D and Rust... WTF?). Why is this interesting or unexpected? Joe Duffy's blog post mentions D and Rust explicitly. That we don't have "many of the details required to make intelligent comparisons" was my issue with it being hand wavy. There are already conspiracy themed posts about this being because Microsoft wants to lock down patents on these parts of the language [2]. Post the details, and we'll likely see "intelligent comparisons" being made on HN and Reddit. The post is spreading on Reddit as well, if you would like to see others feelings on the matter [3]. [0] http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4816 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4816 [1] http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4754 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4754 [2] http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1tve0m/a_glimpse_into_a_new_general_purpose_programming/cebvl72 http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1tve0m/a_glimpse_into_... [3] http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/duplicates/1tvic1/the_microsoft_response_to_d_and_rust_m/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/duplicates/1tvic1/the_mi...
  - ehudla 13y ago
    > It's actually nice to see activity on the LtU front page. I agree. But I think it would be more appropriate to conduct LtU meta-discussions over on LtU...

by dmunoz 13y ago

ehudla 13y ago

For the record, Charles didn't post it to the home page. I promoted it there, since I thought (correctly, it turns out) that it might be of wide interest. So all the blame for that goes to me.

dmunoz 13y ago
It's actually nice to see activity on the LtU front page. The two other posts I would assign to the same category as the submitted one would be xkcd: Functional [0] and The Three Laws of Programming Language Design [1] posts. They both had good discussion, which is where a lot of value at LtU comes from. I even wrote my own little script to make the expanded, threaded list of comments collapsible to consume them more to my liking. To be fair, I was being unjustly negative because of my worry about how Microsoft treats such projects. Admittedly, after sleeping on it, I don't see it to be as big as a deal as I did last night. It'll be interesting to see what Microsoft produces, and we'll still have the open and approachable Rust regardless. I find Charles reply to your comment about the HN thread odd though. He says > It's interesting, though not unexpected, that folks are already comparing this language to D, Rust, and Go which also aim for a nirvana (safe, productive, fast, open) without really having many of the details required to make intelligent comparisons (on reddit, somebody made a post asserting this language is MS's _answer_ to D and Rust... WTF?). Why is this interesting or unexpected? Joe Duffy's blog post mentions D and Rust explicitly. That we don't have "many of the details required to make intelligent comparisons" was my issue with it being hand wavy. There are already conspiracy themed posts about this being because Microsoft wants to lock down patents on these parts of the language [2]. Post the details, and we'll likely see "intelligent comparisons" being made on HN and Reddit. The post is spreading on Reddit as well, if you would like to see others feelings on the matter [3]. [0] http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4816 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4816 [1] http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4754 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4754 [2] http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1tve0m/a_glimpse_into_a_new_general_purpose_programming/cebvl72 http://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/1tve0m/a_glimpse_into_... [3] http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/duplicates/1tvic1/the_microsoft_response_to_d_and_rust_m/ http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/duplicates/1tvic1/the_mi...
- ehudla 13y ago
  > It's actually nice to see activity on the LtU front page. I agree. But I think it would be more appropriate to conduct LtU meta-discussions over on LtU...