7 ms·

Sad that a replaceable CPU on a desktop is "feature" or even noteworthy. I'm sure Apple will "fix" this.

by 2bluesc 13y ago

ihsw 13y ago
With the advent of 3D-printing we should be prepared for the inevitability that everything will eventually be just as difficult to tinker with. 3D-printers enable you to construct devices that are so intricately and tightly closed.
- nwh 13y ago
  I'm not sure we will ever see mass produced 3D printed items. As it stands injection moulded thermoplastics can be churned out at absolutely incredible rates that just can't be matched by a deposited powder or extrusion printing. I think it's world changing, but not for mass produced items like the Mac Pro.
  - astrodust 13y ago
    Apple's using CNC machining on an unprecedented scale to make their products because it offers superior results to a purely stamped or cast part. If 3D printing offers something novel, I'm sure Apple will be all over it yesterday. The only thing I can think of where this would work is materials like glass.
brudgers 13y ago
The odds of a given user ever replacing the CPU are low, because premium Xeon CPU's tend to retain value - 2.0ghz HarperTown quad cores are really cheep, 3.0ghz quad core parts cost enough to make system replacement more attractive in many cases.
mikeash 13y ago
> I'm sure Apple will "fix" this. I don't understand this at all. OK, you want to hate on Apple a little, I get it. But this statement just makes no sense. Do you think they did this by accident? Is this really a problem for them?
- 2bluesc 13y ago
  It's mostly a joke, but there is truth behind it. Apple has a long history of "fixing" products by removing useful buttons (every mouse they've ever made), user serviceable battery/RAM, integrated RJ45 connectors, etc. Sometimes in the name of packaging, and other times just to increase their service revenue. People are missing the real point -- that point being that Anandtech thinks that being able to replacing a CPU on a power user desktop is noteworthy.
  - gnaffle 13y ago
    Didn't the Magic mouse add (touch sensitive) middle and right buttons? Didn't the iPhone 4+ add non-soldered batteries? Didn't the latest Macbook Pros include HDMI output? It's noteworthy exactly because most people, including you, seem to think that Apple is on a mission to lock down the hardware to the maximum extent possible, and seem surprised when they miss an opportunity to do so.
    - 2bluesc 13y ago
      > It's noteworthy exactly because most people, including you, seem to think that Apple is on a mission to lock down the hardware to the maximum extent possible, and seem surprised when they miss an opportunity to do so. Exactly my point. Anandtech's headline suggests they do too.
      - mikeash 13y ago
        But the body doesn't suggest such: "This is hardly unprecedented for the Mac Pro (nor is it surprising, given that Intel doesn't sell soldered-in ball grid array versions of the Xeon). Older versions of the computers were dual-socket Xeon systems, and both processors were user-replaceable." If you want to talk about headline click-mongering, well, be my guest, but it's kind of a boring topic....
  - mikeash 13y ago
    "other times just to increase their service revenue" Examples? The only change I can think of that doesn't come down to making their products smaller is their move to the idiotic pentalobe screws on the outside of their products. And while that is surely done to keep people out of the products, I rather doubt that it's done "to increase their service revenue".
eddieroger 13y ago
This isn't a desktop, it's a workstation, and Apple's workstation line has always had replaceable components.
- xradionut 13y ago
  It's more like a design statement. Workstations are for us plebes that use Linux.
oakwhiz 13y ago
It's possible that Apple could whitelist the CPU in the BIOS so that the system does not boot if you replace the CPU with one that isn't "approved."
- astrodust 13y ago
  About as likely as Microsoft being run by lizard people.
  - oakwhiz 13y ago
    How so?
    - superuser2 13y ago
      Apple's closed-ness is mostly about protecting the user experience. - OSX is only available on relatively expensive Apple hardware because Apple sets (high) minimum standards on quality and "official" OSX on shitty hardware would pollute the brand. - iOS apps are sandboxed and the App Store is curated to protect users from scammy/spammy/malicious apps. - OSX enforces code signing, again, to protect users from malware. It can be switched off by users who demonstrate clear intent and understanding of the consequences. - Parts that are non-user-serviceable are usually that way to achieve smaller form factor and higher capacities. The reason for non-user-serviceable batteries, for example, is that batteries are bags of dangerous chemicals inside of heavy and thick protective cases. Making the entire laptop the "case" for the battery lets them get larger batteries in less space and weight. That it cannot be safely removed by a nontechnical user is a side-effect. Your comment attributes a sort of "inverse FSF" religious sentiment to Apple, as if they make things closed and locked down just for the hell of it, because they believe in closedness the way Stallman believes in freedom. Reality indicates that most of their restrictions are about protecting users who don't know better.... you're not going to "accidentally" replace your CPU. There's no legitimate problem that would be solved by whitelisting processors. Could they do it? Yes, but only if they exhibited some sort of fanatic obsession with preventing users from achieving what they want even when it serves no other purpose. Which would be stupid. Hence, it's as likely as Microsoft being run by lizard people :).
astrodust 13y ago
You want to yell at Apple for using notebook CPUs in their compact systems, is that it? Need a convenient target for your rage? Take it up with Intel who for years has been shipping soldered on CPUs. Apple doesn't make these chips, you know. They just work with whatever Intel can give them that fits in their desired form factor.
userbinator 13y ago
I'm pretty sure Apple can't "fix" this since Intel doesn't offer Xeons in BGA.
cmelbye 13y ago
They just redesigned the thing from scratch, don't you think they would've taken that opportunity to "fix it" if they wanted to do so?

Sad that a replaceable CPU on a desktop is "feature" or even noteworthy. I'm sure Apple will "fix" this.

by 2bluesc 13y ago

Sad that a replaceable CPU on a desktop is "feature" or even noteworthy. I'm sure Apple will "fix" this.

ihsw 13y ago

With the advent of 3D-printing we should be prepared for the inevitability that everything will eventually be just as difficult to tinker with. 3D-printers enable you to construct devices that are so intricately and tightly closed.

nwh 13y ago
I'm not sure we will ever see mass produced 3D printed items. As it stands injection moulded thermoplastics can be churned out at absolutely incredible rates that just can't be matched by a deposited powder or extrusion printing. I think it's world changing, but not for mass produced items like the Mac Pro.
- astrodust 13y ago
  Apple's using CNC machining on an unprecedented scale to make their products because it offers superior results to a purely stamped or cast part. If 3D printing offers something novel, I'm sure Apple will be all over it yesterday. The only thing I can think of where this would work is materials like glass.

brudgers 13y ago

The odds of a given user ever replacing the CPU are low, because premium Xeon CPU's tend to retain value - 2.0ghz HarperTown quad cores are really cheep, 3.0ghz quad core parts cost enough to make system replacement more attractive in many cases.

mikeash 13y ago

> I'm sure Apple will "fix" this. I don't understand this at all. OK, you want to hate on Apple a little, I get it. But this statement just makes no sense. Do you think they did this by accident? Is this really a problem for them?

2bluesc 13y ago
It's mostly a joke, but there is truth behind it. Apple has a long history of "fixing" products by removing useful buttons (every mouse they've ever made), user serviceable battery/RAM, integrated RJ45 connectors, etc. Sometimes in the name of packaging, and other times just to increase their service revenue. People are missing the real point -- that point being that Anandtech thinks that being able to replacing a CPU on a power user desktop is noteworthy.
- gnaffle 13y ago
  Didn't the Magic mouse add (touch sensitive) middle and right buttons? Didn't the iPhone 4+ add non-soldered batteries? Didn't the latest Macbook Pros include HDMI output? It's noteworthy exactly because most people, including you, seem to think that Apple is on a mission to lock down the hardware to the maximum extent possible, and seem surprised when they miss an opportunity to do so.
  - 2bluesc 13y ago
    > It's noteworthy exactly because most people, including you, seem to think that Apple is on a mission to lock down the hardware to the maximum extent possible, and seem surprised when they miss an opportunity to do so. Exactly my point. Anandtech's headline suggests they do too.
    - mikeash 13y ago
      But the body doesn't suggest such: "This is hardly unprecedented for the Mac Pro (nor is it surprising, given that Intel doesn't sell soldered-in ball grid array versions of the Xeon). Older versions of the computers were dual-socket Xeon systems, and both processors were user-replaceable." If you want to talk about headline click-mongering, well, be my guest, but it's kind of a boring topic....
- mikeash 13y ago
  "other times just to increase their service revenue" Examples? The only change I can think of that doesn't come down to making their products smaller is their move to the idiotic pentalobe screws on the outside of their products. And while that is surely done to keep people out of the products, I rather doubt that it's done "to increase their service revenue".

eddieroger 13y ago

This isn't a desktop, it's a workstation, and Apple's workstation line has always had replaceable components.

xradionut 13y ago
It's more like a design statement. Workstations are for us plebes that use Linux.

oakwhiz 13y ago

It's possible that Apple could whitelist the CPU in the BIOS so that the system does not boot if you replace the CPU with one that isn't "approved."

astrodust 13y ago
About as likely as Microsoft being run by lizard people.
- oakwhiz 13y ago
  How so?
  - superuser2 13y ago
    Apple's closed-ness is mostly about protecting the user experience. - OSX is only available on relatively expensive Apple hardware because Apple sets (high) minimum standards on quality and "official" OSX on shitty hardware would pollute the brand. - iOS apps are sandboxed and the App Store is curated to protect users from scammy/spammy/malicious apps. - OSX enforces code signing, again, to protect users from malware. It can be switched off by users who demonstrate clear intent and understanding of the consequences. - Parts that are non-user-serviceable are usually that way to achieve smaller form factor and higher capacities. The reason for non-user-serviceable batteries, for example, is that batteries are bags of dangerous chemicals inside of heavy and thick protective cases. Making the entire laptop the "case" for the battery lets them get larger batteries in less space and weight. That it cannot be safely removed by a nontechnical user is a side-effect. Your comment attributes a sort of "inverse FSF" religious sentiment to Apple, as if they make things closed and locked down just for the hell of it, because they believe in closedness the way Stallman believes in freedom. Reality indicates that most of their restrictions are about protecting users who don't know better.... you're not going to "accidentally" replace your CPU. There's no legitimate problem that would be solved by whitelisting processors. Could they do it? Yes, but only if they exhibited some sort of fanatic obsession with preventing users from achieving what they want even when it serves no other purpose. Which would be stupid. Hence, it's as likely as Microsoft being run by lizard people :).

astrodust 13y ago

You want to yell at Apple for using notebook CPUs in their compact systems, is that it? Need a convenient target for your rage? Take it up with Intel who for years has been shipping soldered on CPUs. Apple doesn't make these chips, you know. They just work with whatever Intel can give them that fits in their desired form factor.

userbinator 13y ago

I'm pretty sure Apple can't "fix" this since Intel doesn't offer Xeons in BGA.

cmelbye 13y ago

They just redesigned the thing from scratch, don't you think they would've taken that opportunity to "fix it" if they wanted to do so?