4 ms·

I believe the safest and least weird thing to do is simply not call anyone by the ridiculous honorific "Sir" or generally maintain the distinction between knigh

I believe the safest and least weird thing to do is simply not call anyone by the ridiculous honorific "Sir" or generally maintain the distinction between knights of any order and the rest of us.

kbenson 13y ago
Do you consider doctor (MD or PhD) to be similarly ridiculous, or do you make a distinction?
- icambron 13y ago
  Also ridiculous. That some institution granted you a degree doesn't compel the rest of us to call you by a special name. When I ask medical doctors about that (my wife is one, for example), their main reason for supporting the "Dr" title is that it creates a sort of formal separation between the patient and the doctor which keeps things professional, similar to how we had to call our elementary teachers "Mr" or "Ms". I don't buy that argument; for example, why wouldn't that apply equally to nurses? To me, it's seems like a trick for lending them an artificial air of authority. I know a lot of people with PhDs, but I can't think of any who want to be called "Doctor", because that's exceedingly silly. I know it works a bit differently outside of the US.
  - kbenson 13y ago
    I tend to agree. I think agreeing within a group to differentiate based on honorifics can be useful if the group is homogenous enough in nature, but for a society in general it just creates arbitrary distinctions.
  - scoot 13y ago
    I found it amusing to learn that, in some parts of the world, surgeons are conferred the title of Mr, Miss, Mrs or Ms as preferential to Dr, as if above the petty nonsense of using "Dr" as a social differentiator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgeon#Titles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgeon#Titles And now we are wildly off-topic!
    - derleth 13y ago
      Also because surgeons were manual laborers, and therefore not accorded the same respect as gentleman physicians.
      - mcguire 13y ago
        A fact that you can gain no end of entertainment from, if you keep reminding your surgeon friends of it.
  - snogglethorpe 13y ago
    > I know a lot of people with PhDs, but I can't think of any who want to be called "Doctor", because that's exceedingly silly. I know it works a bit differently outside of the US. Yes, I've noticed a very strong correlation between country and insistence on using a title conferred by a PhD. Americans do in general seem fairly relaxed about it.
    - prewett 13y ago
      Americans see everyone as equal in status (in theory); in paragraph two of our first document, we say that it is, in fact, self-evident that all men are created equal. Since we are all equal, titles don't really serve much purpose, as the whole point of titles is to distinguish yourself.
      - rational_indian 13y ago
        >we say that it is, in fact, self-evident that all men are created equal. How is this self evident?
        pseut 13y ago
        That phrase is from the Declaration of Independence, one of the US's founding documents: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transc...
        icambron 13y ago
        The nature of self-evidence is that you don't have to say how. (Though I'm not sure I agree with the parent point that Americans as a group really believe equality in the relevant sense here.)
      - dragonwriter 13y ago
        "are created equal" means a very different thing than "are equal". Even Americans who really do believe that all people are created equal (which any discussion thread on any major forum -- including HN -- on gender or race issues, among other topics, will reveal is far from all Americans) rarely believe that all people are equal.

I believe the safest and least weird thing to do is simply not call anyone by the ridiculous honorific "Sir" or generally maintain the distinction between knights of any order and the rest of us.

kbenson 13y ago

Do you consider doctor (MD or PhD) to be similarly ridiculous, or do you make a distinction?

icambron 13y ago
Also ridiculous. That some institution granted you a degree doesn't compel the rest of us to call you by a special name. When I ask medical doctors about that (my wife is one, for example), their main reason for supporting the "Dr" title is that it creates a sort of formal separation between the patient and the doctor which keeps things professional, similar to how we had to call our elementary teachers "Mr" or "Ms". I don't buy that argument; for example, why wouldn't that apply equally to nurses? To me, it's seems like a trick for lending them an artificial air of authority. I know a lot of people with PhDs, but I can't think of any who want to be called "Doctor", because that's exceedingly silly. I know it works a bit differently outside of the US.
- kbenson 13y ago
  I tend to agree. I think agreeing within a group to differentiate based on honorifics can be useful if the group is homogenous enough in nature, but for a society in general it just creates arbitrary distinctions.
- scoot 13y ago
  I found it amusing to learn that, in some parts of the world, surgeons are conferred the title of Mr, Miss, Mrs or Ms as preferential to Dr, as if above the petty nonsense of using "Dr" as a social differentiator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgeon#Titles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgeon#Titles And now we are wildly off-topic!
  - derleth 13y ago
    Also because surgeons were manual laborers, and therefore not accorded the same respect as gentleman physicians.
    - mcguire 13y ago
      A fact that you can gain no end of entertainment from, if you keep reminding your surgeon friends of it.
- snogglethorpe 13y ago
  > I know a lot of people with PhDs, but I can't think of any who want to be called "Doctor", because that's exceedingly silly. I know it works a bit differently outside of the US. Yes, I've noticed a very strong correlation between country and insistence on using a title conferred by a PhD. Americans do in general seem fairly relaxed about it.
  - prewett 13y ago
    Americans see everyone as equal in status (in theory); in paragraph two of our first document, we say that it is, in fact, self-evident that all men are created equal. Since we are all equal, titles don't really serve much purpose, as the whole point of titles is to distinguish yourself.
    - rational_indian 13y ago
      >we say that it is, in fact, self-evident that all men are created equal. How is this self evident?
      - pseut 13y ago
        That phrase is from the Declaration of Independence, one of the US's founding documents: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transc...
      - icambron 13y ago
        The nature of self-evidence is that you don't have to say how. (Though I'm not sure I agree with the parent point that Americans as a group really believe equality in the relevant sense here.)
    - dragonwriter 13y ago
      "are created equal" means a very different thing than "are equal". Even Americans who really do believe that all people are created equal (which any discussion thread on any major forum -- including HN -- on gender or race issues, among other topics, will reveal is far from all Americans) rarely believe that all people are equal.