4 ms·

yep, that declaration is crazy. They're all good tools. Use the right tool for the job. I think part of the issue really, unfortunately, is that SQL is tough

by pj 17y ago

yep, that declaration is crazy. They're all good tools. Use the right tool for the job. I think part of the issue really, unfortunately, is that SQL is tough. It's not taught in colleges very much. I learned it on the job. I never learned anything about SQL in college and it's not something you can just jump into, but a key/value pair is easy. Anyone who has taken a data structures class is going to understand it. It's basic programming. You gotta kinda wrap your mind around SQL though and if you don't have a support group helping you do that, you're probably going to struggle with it. So I can understand the desire to find a simpler alternative to solve information based systems, something between file based Perl and SQL.

sho 17y ago
The funny thing is, I always thought SQL was very easy to understand, at least enough for basic use, which will carry you a long way. It's very clean and logical and conforms well to my intuitive concept of object relationships. Sure I've had frustrating moments trying to comprehend some hideous join or wondering why some query doesn't work but I never thought SQL itself was particularly hard to get started with. Map/reduce, though, that will do your head in! It's like changing from procedural to functional programming. To me, it's much harder and far less intuitive. So I can't imagine how anyone could think using M/R is somehow easier than learning SQL. Anyone who thinks that is in for a nasty surprise. It's like claiming Erlang is easier to learn than Ruby.
timwiseman 17y ago
I suppose much of it depends on your background, but in both colleges I attended (one for undergrad, other for master's) there were classes offered on Database theory that did cover at least the basics of actual SQL use. I know that's a minuscule sample size, but I can say I would be surprised by any CS department that didn't at least touch on it in electives at a minimum. I also remember when I first started with sql that I could read and understand (most of) it quite easily. Writing it was of course another story, especially if optimization mattered, but it wasn't hard to read and not too hard to learn at least the basics. At this point the market is filled with books like "SQL for Dummies" and "The Manga Guide to Databases" that provide very gentle introductions for complete beginners as well as numerous classes at practical trade schools. Mastering SQL and RDBMS is definitely a work for years and creates dedicated specialists just like any deep field, but picking up the basics is relatively easy compared to many other tasks in this field.

by pj 17y ago

sho 17y ago

The funny thing is, I always thought SQL was very easy to understand, at least enough for basic use, which will carry you a long way. It's very clean and logical and conforms well to my intuitive concept of object relationships. Sure I've had frustrating moments trying to comprehend some hideous join or wondering why some query doesn't work but I never thought SQL itself was particularly hard to get started with. Map/reduce, though, that will do your head in! It's like changing from procedural to functional programming. To me, it's much harder and far less intuitive. So I can't imagine how anyone could think using M/R is somehow easier than learning SQL. Anyone who thinks that is in for a nasty surprise. It's like claiming Erlang is easier to learn than Ruby.

timwiseman 17y ago

I suppose much of it depends on your background, but in both colleges I attended (one for undergrad, other for master's) there were classes offered on Database theory that did cover at least the basics of actual SQL use. I know that's a minuscule sample size, but I can say I would be surprised by any CS department that didn't at least touch on it in electives at a minimum. I also remember when I first started with sql that I could read and understand (most of) it quite easily. Writing it was of course another story, especially if optimization mattered, but it wasn't hard to read and not too hard to learn at least the basics. At this point the market is filled with books like "SQL for Dummies" and "The Manga Guide to Databases" that provide very gentle introductions for complete beginners as well as numerous classes at practical trade schools. Mastering SQL and RDBMS is definitely a work for years and creates dedicated specialists just like any deep field, but picking up the basics is relatively easy compared to many other tasks in this field.