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Oh man, here we go again. The amount of FUD in this article is absolutely shocking! The Reserve Bank of India has not declared bitcoin as illegal [1]. The artic

by ashray 13y ago

Oh man, here we go again. The amount of FUD in this article is absolutely shocking! The Reserve Bank of India has not declared bitcoin as illegal [1]. The article certainly does insinuate that it is: A couple of days after the Reserve Bank of India issued an advisory to public not to indulge in buying-selling of Bitcoins, the first raid in India was undertaken in Ahmedabad by Enforcement Directorate (ED) on an entity that provide platform to trade in this illegal but virtual currency. I'm 100% certain that the website in question however was in violation of several KYC and AML norms as well as money exchange regulations, so the fact that they shut it down does make sense. It is sad more-so because the regulatory framework is extremely opaque and if I were to start a bitcoin business in India, I wouldn't know where to begin... The RBI has done a shitty job so far of regulating the Indian Rupee. I'm an Indian and my personal savings are now worth 30% less since 2009 on a global level (USD->INR went from Rs. 43 to a dollar to Rs. 62 now..). Internal inflation is at 10% YOY and there's no practical way to protect your money. Of course, I'm not implying that bitcoin is the solution to all these issues, just saying that on a personal level I do have issues with the way the RBI has managed (mismanaged?) our currency. [1] - http://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/BS_PressReleaseDisplay.aspx?prid=30247 http://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/BS_PressReleaseDisplay.aspx?pr...

vellasib 13y ago
Correct, Calling Bitcoin as illegal is absolutely rubbish. They want to give Bitcoin the same treatment which they gave to PayPal that is, make it unusable.
kamaal 13y ago
RBI has mismanaged our currency? Sorry the global crude oil prices are soaring, thanks to sanctions on India's major oil supplier(Iran). Major world economies are in a state of war since the whole past decade. None of these are under RBI or Government of India's control. Yes there is corruption, but we are equal partners to that. In case you haven't noticed bulk of India's import business depends on software. There is massive anti-outsourcing wave, and at the same Indian start up industry hasn't really compensated for that. There is every reason why the government can be skeptical Bitcoin in India. We have massive tax evasion situation prevalent here. This is not a anti-technology anti-capitalism stance the government is having here. The public cheats on taxes so often, the government has 0 reasons why it should trust some thing new like Bitcoin.
- ashray 13y ago
  You are right that the entire blame for INR depreciation does not squarely sit on the shoulders of the RBI. It is a problem with reasons that go far beyond the control of the RBI. Yes, there is a huge current account deficit (export/import imbalance) and that is a big part of it. However, as the agency that manages the circulation and control of the currency, ultimately I look at the RBI as the 'face' of the Indian Rupee. That said, the government doesn't have to trust bitcoin. However, regulatory burden in India is extremely high regardless of the kind of business you want to start. India ranks poorly on several 'Ease of doing Business' indexes. [1] I'm bringing this up since you mentioned the start up industry. It's just not that easy to start something in India. Yes, tax evasion is a huge problem in India. But that's a cultural thing. The government has made it very hard to evade taxes (as long as you rely on existing banking channels) for now, but it doesn't really stop anyone. I can imagine that they are afraid that people will launder money by exchanging cash directly into bitcoin. However, why doesn't the government then go after the real estate business in India that normally takes 30%+ of the money in cash ? It is extremely hard to buy properties in resale unless you agree to pay a large percentage in cash. Oh wait, the government likes to put their black money into real estate. For the same reason as Real Estate, I highly doubt that the Indian government will ban bitcoin or make it illegal. They have plenty of money they would like to sink into this new genius asset class. They might however make it harder for regular people to get into it. Besides, you can always wire money to bitstamp and buy bitcoins as much as foreign exchange controls would let you. [1] - http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings
  - vellasib 13y ago
    The biggest concern they have is transactions which happen within Indian users. They will get absolutely no information about it. Although when finally someone realizes the money, it has to come to the bank, but taxes like Sales Tax/Service Tax (think chain of transactions), which are based on the transactions cannot be enforced.
    - ashray 13y ago
      But isn't that the same as selling something through OLX ? I suppose the issue with buysellbitco.in was that it was missing some paperwork that it should have had because they were accepting people's money (INR) and selling bitcoins on a commercial scale. I'm not sure why they said it violated foreign exchange acts though..
r0h1n 13y ago
> The RBI has done a shitty job so far of regulating the Indian Rupee. I'm an Indian and my personal savings are now worth 30% less since 2009 on a global level (USD->INR went from Rs. 43 to a dollar to Rs. 62 now..) Eh? A currency's exchange rate cannot be merely "regulated" by a central bank. Even in some parallel world in which it could, what makes you think that a depreciating currency (vis a vis, say, the USD) is always bad and an appreciating one always good?
MarkMc 13y ago
I'm curious: Are Indians generally not allowed to have bank accounts denominated in US dollars? Are they allowed to buy US stocks? US real estate?

by ashray 13y ago

vellasib 13y ago

Correct, Calling Bitcoin as illegal is absolutely rubbish. They want to give Bitcoin the same treatment which they gave to PayPal that is, make it unusable.

kamaal 13y ago

RBI has mismanaged our currency? Sorry the global crude oil prices are soaring, thanks to sanctions on India's major oil supplier(Iran). Major world economies are in a state of war since the whole past decade. None of these are under RBI or Government of India's control. Yes there is corruption, but we are equal partners to that. In case you haven't noticed bulk of India's import business depends on software. There is massive anti-outsourcing wave, and at the same Indian start up industry hasn't really compensated for that. There is every reason why the government can be skeptical Bitcoin in India. We have massive tax evasion situation prevalent here. This is not a anti-technology anti-capitalism stance the government is having here. The public cheats on taxes so often, the government has 0 reasons why it should trust some thing new like Bitcoin.

ashray 13y ago
You are right that the entire blame for INR depreciation does not squarely sit on the shoulders of the RBI. It is a problem with reasons that go far beyond the control of the RBI. Yes, there is a huge current account deficit (export/import imbalance) and that is a big part of it. However, as the agency that manages the circulation and control of the currency, ultimately I look at the RBI as the 'face' of the Indian Rupee. That said, the government doesn't have to trust bitcoin. However, regulatory burden in India is extremely high regardless of the kind of business you want to start. India ranks poorly on several 'Ease of doing Business' indexes. [1] I'm bringing this up since you mentioned the start up industry. It's just not that easy to start something in India. Yes, tax evasion is a huge problem in India. But that's a cultural thing. The government has made it very hard to evade taxes (as long as you rely on existing banking channels) for now, but it doesn't really stop anyone. I can imagine that they are afraid that people will launder money by exchanging cash directly into bitcoin. However, why doesn't the government then go after the real estate business in India that normally takes 30%+ of the money in cash ? It is extremely hard to buy properties in resale unless you agree to pay a large percentage in cash. Oh wait, the government likes to put their black money into real estate. For the same reason as Real Estate, I highly doubt that the Indian government will ban bitcoin or make it illegal. They have plenty of money they would like to sink into this new genius asset class. They might however make it harder for regular people to get into it. Besides, you can always wire money to bitstamp and buy bitcoins as much as foreign exchange controls would let you. [1] - http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings http://www.doingbusiness.org/rankings
- vellasib 13y ago
  The biggest concern they have is transactions which happen within Indian users. They will get absolutely no information about it. Although when finally someone realizes the money, it has to come to the bank, but taxes like Sales Tax/Service Tax (think chain of transactions), which are based on the transactions cannot be enforced.
  - ashray 13y ago
    But isn't that the same as selling something through OLX ? I suppose the issue with buysellbitco.in was that it was missing some paperwork that it should have had because they were accepting people's money (INR) and selling bitcoins on a commercial scale. I'm not sure why they said it violated foreign exchange acts though..

r0h1n 13y ago

> The RBI has done a shitty job so far of regulating the Indian Rupee. I'm an Indian and my personal savings are now worth 30% less since 2009 on a global level (USD->INR went from Rs. 43 to a dollar to Rs. 62 now..) Eh? A currency's exchange rate cannot be merely "regulated" by a central bank. Even in some parallel world in which it could, what makes you think that a depreciating currency (vis a vis, say, the USD) is always bad and an appreciating one always good?

MarkMc 13y ago

I'm curious: Are Indians generally not allowed to have bank accounts denominated in US dollars? Are they allowed to buy US stocks? US real estate?