6 ms·

I commend Google for it, but my inner voice is somewhat skeptical that this is a great way to get kids hooked on Google's services. Then again, having a Chromeb

by rwbt 13y ago

I commend Google for it, but my inner voice is somewhat skeptical that this is a great way to get kids hooked on Google's services. Then again, having a Chromebook is way better than some crappy linux machine/cheap windows laptop. So I think its a win-win for both parties.

aufreak3 13y ago
Is it possible to install regular Ubuntu or something on a Chromebook? I'd absolutely hate to see kids use computers whose operation they do not control.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  Developer mode. Chrome OS = Gentoo, and you can use Crouton to install Ubuntu or another distro alongside Chrome OS (and they share the kernel as opposed to dual-booting).
josteink 13y ago
Then again, having a Chromebook is way better than some crappy linux machine/cheap windows laptop. Why? It's a much more limited device with much less potential for learning essential skills. A Chromebook can only be used to surf the web. It's the polar opposite of what an educational institute needs.
- Alterlife 13y ago
  Apart from the good points that other folks are making, this isn't necessarily targeted at engineering students. A decent screen, a decent keyboard, comes with a word processor, is low maintenance, doesn't get viruses (theoretically at least) and it can access the web. That sounds pretty good to me.
- userbinator 13y ago
  Indeed, a bootable browser has little use outside of... web browsing. Even an old machine with an old OS is more usable, especially when there's no network connectivity. That happens a lot more than you think with a laptop.
  - Mikeb85 13y ago
    Really? Have you ever tried to use good 'ol run-of-the-mill Firefox to browse files, photos and videos? Or open local HTML or JS files? Etc...? There's HTML5/Javascript IDEs which run entirely client-side which you can install in the browser's cache, or keep the file in your file system. You can give web apps native features and define how it installs/behaves using the App Manifest. A browser nowadays can do nearly as much as a full OS, even within a full OS.
- rwbt 13y ago
  It depends. A regular laptop can do more things, but most of the time students just need a laptop to research and write articles and the Chromebook does that very well, without exposing the internals of a traditional desktop system. If I'm a college student, I really don't want to deal with OS upgrades, malware and other things. I just want something that works out of the box and Chromebook does that perfectly. If I really want to tinker, it's not that hard to install a linux distro in a Chromebook and not everyone desires to tinker with their computers.
  - shaneofalltrad 13y ago
    I think Linux (Ubuntu or Mint) would be great, so students can help build what the big corps are trying to crush and the fact that it really is an outstanding platform to learn from. I wish people would see how these proprietary boxes are not only crap but undermine the open-source community. The comment "I really don't want to deal with OS upgrades...", does not make sense, as I would think a student (at least when I was one) we wanted to upgrade our OS and for free made it even better. You can also customize a Linux REALLY easy, and that is something as a student I was looking for. So low cost and great power is what at least a tech student would be looking for.
  - pavanred 13y ago
    Say you use Windows, 1. Turn on automatic updates (default option, I think) 2. Use something like MS Security essentials And, if you use Linux, 1. Update regularly, again I guess most distros have a default option to check for updates on boot. And, you don't need to upgrade your OS unless you want/have to. How much more do you want to dumb it down? For basic use as you mentioned, to research and write articles, you are almost doing nothing already with windows/linux
    - eitally 13y ago
      ChromeOS is dumbed down so much more than that, insofar as nothing ever breaks, update reboots only take a few (<10) seconds, behavior encountered is always 100% predictable, and with a browser being the only available interactive display mode, WYSIWYG. My wife has a MacBook and I have a cheap Acer Revo mini-PC, but she also has a new HP Chromebook and I spend most of my time on either the Pixel in my office or the Samsung Chromebook I'm typing on now. Except for things like needing a traditional OS for random third party hardware support (e.g. Fitbit sync, printer, scanner) or extremely rare requirements for MS Office or photo management, we'd function very well with just browsers. I know this is an aside, but one of the things that irritates me most about the modern web, and Google's "solution" especially, is photo management. Picasa on the desktop is simplistic but generally 100% ok, but Google+ Photos leads to horrifically unpleasant workflows, and god help you if you want print anything or share on non-Google properties.
- _delirium 13y ago
  It's a little hard to tell from the article what the goal is. If the goal is just to use the computers as a means to some other (non-tech) educational end, e.g. as browsers for accessing online information, then Chromebooks seem like a reasonable method of doing so. If the goal is computer education, then I agree they're suboptimal; even something like a Raspberry Pi might be better for that kind of education. One lingering unease I have about the first use-case, though, is that it forecloses some unplanned exploration. I largely got into tech by fiddling around with lightweight programming on machines that weren't explicitly bought to teach programming. Perhaps web-based dev environments will fill that gap, though; someone with a Chromebook can still experiment with anything from Codeacademy to jsFiddle to sketchpad.cc.
- agumonkey 13y ago
  With everything javascript, a browser can get you quite far. You have : - repl for a handful of languages from javascript to haskell with lisps in between. - jsfiddle to learn ~basic client-side webdev. - canvas/webgl to learn ~basic graphic programming. - if you dig deep enough you have VPRI OMeta for parser/metaprogramming. - if you're not in a hurry you can even learn ~basic unix (busybox, gcc 4.3) on Fabrice Bellard's jslinux I don't think you can learn prolog easily though.
  - patrickaljord 13y ago
    If you install crouton, you can learn prolog or anything or if you just hit Ctrl+Alt+T you already have access to bash and chroot into any linux distro or ssh to a cheap vm.
    - agumonkey 13y ago
      I know, I said that as a snarky conclusion. It's just that you really don't need a full OS in these days of 'everything in the browser' to learn. I say to learn, because web-based everything is often a little bit too slow and resource consuming as of now, but to learn you don't need snap fast interfaces and interpreters.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  Funny how people believe things that get repeated, no matter how false. > A Chromebook can only be used to surf the web. It's the polar opposite of what an educational institute needs. Chrome OS is a highly customized version of Gentoo at its core. When you activate developer mode, you get access to a full Linux distro. Some people use Portage to install extra tools, some use Crouton to install Ubuntu alongside Chrome OS (they share the same kernel as opposed to dual-booting). Heck, even if you don't use developer mode, there are some cool JavaScript programming tools that you can download and run locally in the browser.
auctiontheory 13y ago
Think of the hundred of millions of kids who've been hooked onto Microsoft's products. Why shouldn't kids have a choice?
- wklauss 13y ago
  I think we should strive for not repeating the Microsoft situation with a different brand. Like someone else commented, a Raspberry Pi seems like a better solution. Chromebooks are extremely tied to Google services.
  - stinos 13y ago
    rPi might seem ok at first, but I'm really not sure it's the best solution for cases like this, I find it's too much of a 'hacker' device? Sure if it works, it gives you a pretty usable general purpose OS (kinda slow though) but if it breaks (and it will sooner than the ordinary laptop/PC, either in software or in hardware) you'll have to have quite some linux experience in order to fix it. I agree with your last sentence though. One single device tied to a single OS is a bad choice. I'd rather give them a laptop that dual-boots Linux and Windows. That at least gives children a taste of the real world where more than one OS is used and learns them how to use both.
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  > Why shouldn't kids have a choice? With chrome you can develop for the web which is the most open platform that works everywhere. And if you want to develop in native, you can install crouton and do whatever you want. Chromebooks are not locked in or "jailed", they all come with a dev switch that is documented by google and encouraged for anyone who wants to use it: http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-os-devices http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-fo... This is the way it should be in my opinion, the possibility to mess up with your device should not be enabled by default to avoid confusing noobs. But, if you're a tinkerer, it should be as easy as pressing a few keys and the process should be duly documented by the manufacturer and it should not breach the warranty. This comes from a happy pixel owner who enjoys hacking on Golang, js and even ruby among other languages on my chromebook. Best environment I've had after 10+ years of ubuntu and some osx :)
codygman 13y ago
Even better is wiping the chromebook and putting linux on it!
- eru 13y ago
  It already comes with a Linux. You might want to put a different flavour of Linux on it, if you care enough. It's pretty easy, at least if you are willing to boot from external media.
  - Teapot 13y ago
    Hopefully the kids learns exactly this. How to get rid of the Google lock-in, and installs something that unlocks the full potential of the hardware.
    - eru 13y ago
      Google actually has lots of documentation on how to do that.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
donniezazen 13y ago
You should create something better than Linux and distribute it for free.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
eru 13y ago
A Chromebook is essentially a cheap linux machine.
chestnut-tree 13y ago
"I commend Google for it..." Why? This initiative is clearly in their own self-interest. That's not meant to be a cycnical jab, but just stating how it is. Much more disturbing to me are the privacy implications. Since you cannot use a Chromebook without signing into the OS, Google has the potential to track everything you do on a Chromebook. And now they're giving these computers to kids. Just stop and think about that for a few seconds. Over the course of a year, Google will potentially know every single website you visit, every document you print (even to your desktop printer), how ofen and when you use their online apps, and who knows what else? Their vaguely-worded privacy policies simply don't tell you what they track and record. The privacy implications are horrendous in my view. Until Google clearly and unambiguosly state what they track and record I would never recommend using ChromeOS (that, plus the limited capabilities of the OS).
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  > Since you cannot use a Chromebook without signing into the OS, Google has the potential to track everything you do on a Chromebook. Pixel owner here. You can sign in as guest without a google account and use chrome without a google account then. You can even run as incognito in guest mode if you really care.
  - chestnut-tree 13y ago
    You're right, but a guest account won't allow you to use Google apps - a key part of using ChromeBooks. But more importantly, why should you have to use a guest account in the first place in order to avoid sending your online activity to Google? I know many posters here have no qualms about Google tracking their online behaviour, but at the very least I would expect Google to clearly state what they track and record when using ChromeOS. That's not an unreasonable expectation. It's something that Google does not provide.
    - patrickaljord 13y ago
      Using ChromeOS is just like using Chrome so it's the same thing. Both are open source and you can check and disable what kind of info Chrome sends to Google.

by rwbt 13y ago

aufreak3 13y ago

Is it possible to install regular Ubuntu or something on a Chromebook? I'd absolutely hate to see kids use computers whose operation they do not control.

Mikeb85 13y ago
Developer mode. Chrome OS = Gentoo, and you can use Crouton to install Ubuntu or another distro alongside Chrome OS (and they share the kernel as opposed to dual-booting).

josteink 13y ago

Then again, having a Chromebook is way better than some crappy linux machine/cheap windows laptop. Why? It's a much more limited device with much less potential for learning essential skills. A Chromebook can only be used to surf the web. It's the polar opposite of what an educational institute needs.

Alterlife 13y ago
Apart from the good points that other folks are making, this isn't necessarily targeted at engineering students. A decent screen, a decent keyboard, comes with a word processor, is low maintenance, doesn't get viruses (theoretically at least) and it can access the web. That sounds pretty good to me.
userbinator 13y ago
Indeed, a bootable browser has little use outside of... web browsing. Even an old machine with an old OS is more usable, especially when there's no network connectivity. That happens a lot more than you think with a laptop.
- Mikeb85 13y ago
  Really? Have you ever tried to use good 'ol run-of-the-mill Firefox to browse files, photos and videos? Or open local HTML or JS files? Etc...? There's HTML5/Javascript IDEs which run entirely client-side which you can install in the browser's cache, or keep the file in your file system. You can give web apps native features and define how it installs/behaves using the App Manifest. A browser nowadays can do nearly as much as a full OS, even within a full OS.
rwbt 13y ago
It depends. A regular laptop can do more things, but most of the time students just need a laptop to research and write articles and the Chromebook does that very well, without exposing the internals of a traditional desktop system. If I'm a college student, I really don't want to deal with OS upgrades, malware and other things. I just want something that works out of the box and Chromebook does that perfectly. If I really want to tinker, it's not that hard to install a linux distro in a Chromebook and not everyone desires to tinker with their computers.
- shaneofalltrad 13y ago
  I think Linux (Ubuntu or Mint) would be great, so students can help build what the big corps are trying to crush and the fact that it really is an outstanding platform to learn from. I wish people would see how these proprietary boxes are not only crap but undermine the open-source community. The comment "I really don't want to deal with OS upgrades...", does not make sense, as I would think a student (at least when I was one) we wanted to upgrade our OS and for free made it even better. You can also customize a Linux REALLY easy, and that is something as a student I was looking for. So low cost and great power is what at least a tech student would be looking for.
- pavanred 13y ago
  Say you use Windows, 1. Turn on automatic updates (default option, I think) 2. Use something like MS Security essentials And, if you use Linux, 1. Update regularly, again I guess most distros have a default option to check for updates on boot. And, you don't need to upgrade your OS unless you want/have to. How much more do you want to dumb it down? For basic use as you mentioned, to research and write articles, you are almost doing nothing already with windows/linux
  - eitally 13y ago
    ChromeOS is dumbed down so much more than that, insofar as nothing ever breaks, update reboots only take a few (<10) seconds, behavior encountered is always 100% predictable, and with a browser being the only available interactive display mode, WYSIWYG. My wife has a MacBook and I have a cheap Acer Revo mini-PC, but she also has a new HP Chromebook and I spend most of my time on either the Pixel in my office or the Samsung Chromebook I'm typing on now. Except for things like needing a traditional OS for random third party hardware support (e.g. Fitbit sync, printer, scanner) or extremely rare requirements for MS Office or photo management, we'd function very well with just browsers. I know this is an aside, but one of the things that irritates me most about the modern web, and Google's "solution" especially, is photo management. Picasa on the desktop is simplistic but generally 100% ok, but Google+ Photos leads to horrifically unpleasant workflows, and god help you if you want print anything or share on non-Google properties.
_delirium 13y ago
It's a little hard to tell from the article what the goal is. If the goal is just to use the computers as a means to some other (non-tech) educational end, e.g. as browsers for accessing online information, then Chromebooks seem like a reasonable method of doing so. If the goal is computer education, then I agree they're suboptimal; even something like a Raspberry Pi might be better for that kind of education. One lingering unease I have about the first use-case, though, is that it forecloses some unplanned exploration. I largely got into tech by fiddling around with lightweight programming on machines that weren't explicitly bought to teach programming. Perhaps web-based dev environments will fill that gap, though; someone with a Chromebook can still experiment with anything from Codeacademy to jsFiddle to sketchpad.cc.
agumonkey 13y ago
With everything javascript, a browser can get you quite far. You have : - repl for a handful of languages from javascript to haskell with lisps in between. - jsfiddle to learn ~basic client-side webdev. - canvas/webgl to learn ~basic graphic programming. - if you dig deep enough you have VPRI OMeta for parser/metaprogramming. - if you're not in a hurry you can even learn ~basic unix (busybox, gcc 4.3) on Fabrice Bellard's jslinux I don't think you can learn prolog easily though.
- patrickaljord 13y ago
  If you install crouton, you can learn prolog or anything or if you just hit Ctrl+Alt+T you already have access to bash and chroot into any linux distro or ssh to a cheap vm.
  - agumonkey 13y ago
    I know, I said that as a snarky conclusion. It's just that you really don't need a full OS in these days of 'everything in the browser' to learn. I say to learn, because web-based everything is often a little bit too slow and resource consuming as of now, but to learn you don't need snap fast interfaces and interpreters.
Mikeb85 13y ago
Funny how people believe things that get repeated, no matter how false. > A Chromebook can only be used to surf the web. It's the polar opposite of what an educational institute needs. Chrome OS is a highly customized version of Gentoo at its core. When you activate developer mode, you get access to a full Linux distro. Some people use Portage to install extra tools, some use Crouton to install Ubuntu alongside Chrome OS (they share the same kernel as opposed to dual-booting). Heck, even if you don't use developer mode, there are some cool JavaScript programming tools that you can download and run locally in the browser.

auctiontheory 13y ago

Think of the hundred of millions of kids who've been hooked onto Microsoft's products. Why shouldn't kids have a choice?

wklauss 13y ago
I think we should strive for not repeating the Microsoft situation with a different brand. Like someone else commented, a Raspberry Pi seems like a better solution. Chromebooks are extremely tied to Google services.
- stinos 13y ago
  rPi might seem ok at first, but I'm really not sure it's the best solution for cases like this, I find it's too much of a 'hacker' device? Sure if it works, it gives you a pretty usable general purpose OS (kinda slow though) but if it breaks (and it will sooner than the ordinary laptop/PC, either in software or in hardware) you'll have to have quite some linux experience in order to fix it. I agree with your last sentence though. One single device tied to a single OS is a bad choice. I'd rather give them a laptop that dual-boots Linux and Windows. That at least gives children a taste of the real world where more than one OS is used and learns them how to use both.
patrickaljord 13y ago
> Why shouldn't kids have a choice? With chrome you can develop for the web which is the most open platform that works everywhere. And if you want to develop in native, you can install crouton and do whatever you want. Chromebooks are not locked in or "jailed", they all come with a dev switch that is documented by google and encouraged for anyone who wants to use it: http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-for-chrome-os-devices http://www.chromium.org/chromium-os/developer-information-fo... This is the way it should be in my opinion, the possibility to mess up with your device should not be enabled by default to avoid confusing noobs. But, if you're a tinkerer, it should be as easy as pressing a few keys and the process should be duly documented by the manufacturer and it should not breach the warranty. This comes from a happy pixel owner who enjoys hacking on Golang, js and even ruby among other languages on my chromebook. Best environment I've had after 10+ years of ubuntu and some osx :)

codygman 13y ago

Even better is wiping the chromebook and putting linux on it!

eru 13y ago
It already comes with a Linux. You might want to put a different flavour of Linux on it, if you care enough. It's pretty easy, at least if you are willing to boot from external media.
- Teapot 13y ago
  Hopefully the kids learns exactly this. How to get rid of the Google lock-in, and installs something that unlocks the full potential of the hardware.
  - eru 13y ago
    Google actually has lots of documentation on how to do that.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

donniezazen 13y ago

You should create something better than Linux and distribute it for free.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

eru 13y ago

A Chromebook is essentially a cheap linux machine.

chestnut-tree 13y ago

"I commend Google for it..." Why? This initiative is clearly in their own self-interest. That's not meant to be a cycnical jab, but just stating how it is. Much more disturbing to me are the privacy implications. Since you cannot use a Chromebook without signing into the OS, Google has the potential to track everything you do on a Chromebook. And now they're giving these computers to kids. Just stop and think about that for a few seconds. Over the course of a year, Google will potentially know every single website you visit, every document you print (even to your desktop printer), how ofen and when you use their online apps, and who knows what else? Their vaguely-worded privacy policies simply don't tell you what they track and record. The privacy implications are horrendous in my view. Until Google clearly and unambiguosly state what they track and record I would never recommend using ChromeOS (that, plus the limited capabilities of the OS).

patrickaljord 13y ago
> Since you cannot use a Chromebook without signing into the OS, Google has the potential to track everything you do on a Chromebook. Pixel owner here. You can sign in as guest without a google account and use chrome without a google account then. You can even run as incognito in guest mode if you really care.
- chestnut-tree 13y ago
  You're right, but a guest account won't allow you to use Google apps - a key part of using ChromeBooks. But more importantly, why should you have to use a guest account in the first place in order to avoid sending your online activity to Google? I know many posters here have no qualms about Google tracking their online behaviour, but at the very least I would expect Google to clearly state what they track and record when using ChromeOS. That's not an unreasonable expectation. It's something that Google does not provide.
  - patrickaljord 13y ago
    Using ChromeOS is just like using Chrome so it's the same thing. Both are open source and you can check and disable what kind of info Chrome sends to Google.