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If you could convincingly demonstrate that you were the tooth fairy, for example by flying into the locked rooms of every little boy and girl in the world overn

• DanielBMarkham 17y ago
  "If you could convincingly demonstrate that you were the tooth fairy, for example by flying into the locked rooms of every little boy and girl in the world overnight looking for teeth, or just by displaying any supernatural ability whatsoever, then of course I'd admit I was wrong all this time." But you see you are proving my point. You are providing some definition of the tooth fairy that you then expect me to demonstrate. That's crazy. What if my definition of the tooth fairy is simply a kind father who slips a couple bucks under his kid's pillow on certain occasions? Do you see what I'm getting at? You're taking some attributes, that some people believe, about some possible entity beyond our understanding. Then you're trying to use logic and science with it. That doesn't seem so smart to me. There is a fine line between stories I make up to tell you and stories I tell you that you have no ability to verify. You might want to read that preceding sentence again. From the outside they look the same. There's no way for you to tell the difference.
  • sho 17y ago
    The bible, which if I understand it correctly is the basis of Christianity, makes claims which are unambiguously supernatural. Seas being parted, virgin birth, dead rising, pillars of salt, that kind of thing. All of these events are impossible and should be assumed to be fictional unless proven otherwise. Since you like to play with definitions so much, why don't you define "God" and give me something to shoot at, then? If you define him as a kindly middle aged father who is nice to his kids, then fine, no argument from me, except it doesn't have much to do with the character in the book. "There is a fine line between stories I make up to tell you and stories I tell you that you have no ability to verify." No there's not. There is no line at all! If there is no evidence, it didn't happen. "Then you're trying to use logic and science with it. That doesn't seem so smart to me." I guess that's where we'll have to differ.
    • DanielBMarkham 17y ago
      Sorry if I come across as playing with definitions. Words matter, and if you have one meaning and I have another, we're just going to talk past each other. A Christian, by definition, is one who follows Christ. The "Bible" as I guess you are using the term, is a collection of religious letters put together in the 3rd century out of dozens or hundreds of candidates. Fundamentalists think of the bible as a textbook. So do critics, except they think of it as a flawed textbook. More modern versions of Christianity view that Bible as largely allegorical. You can certainly be a Christian and not believe in the bible. Good grief, you can be a Christian and not believe in God. You could even be an atheist. But these are just simple facts that I would take as a starting point for discussion. The best I can tell, there is a universal core definition of God across religions which is something like "that which we are not able to understand". I can grok this, as throughout history there have been things we do not understand. Perhaps God will be by ex-wife: never could figure her out. So if you asked me for a definition, that's the one I'd give. Not some myth-overloaded product of hundreds of years of religious dogma. God is a belief that we do not know everything. At least to me. I find such a belief a critical part of being a mature intellectual. You're welcome to take shots at that definition. I'd like to hear your critique. I don't have any answers. The issue of God and all of the sub-issues has been debated for ages. Perhaps there is some new angle everybody else has missed. Who knows?
      • sho 17y ago
        Well, I am not an expert on religion at all, as you can probably tell. So the new angle is unlikely to come from me. I get frustrated with abstract discussions about religion - to me it comes down to, is it real or not? And the answer, of course, is inevitably "not". I don't really know about these variants of Christians you mention. I suppose that if there are Christians who know that any supernatural events in the bible are fictional, and do not believe in God but merely try to follow the purported words of Jesus, then that is great - I totally support such people. Anything beyond that, though, is a leap into irrationality, and I suspect the vast majority of Christians fall into the latter category. I have certainly never seen or heard of a Christian who does not believe in God. Perhaps we can term the mere admirers of Jesus' words "Philosophical Christians", and "Christians" can refer to the believers in the supernatural entity. The best I can tell, there is a universal core definition of God across religions which is something like "that which we are not able to understand" That seems like a uselessly broad definition and totally at odds with the common definition of the word. If I said to a normal person that I believe in God, he or she is not going to think "Ah, this person believes that there are certain things humanity is not able to understand". When I say "God" I mean a supernatural entity as depicted in a religious text or tradition. When I want to talk about things we do not yet understand, I say "things we do not yet understand". I understand the anthropological point you are getting at though, and agree that "God did it" has been the refrain of savages throughout the ages when confronted with the incomprehensible. However, it is now 2009, and it's time for us to grow up, IMO. "Not some myth-overloaded product of hundreds of years of religious dogma." Look, everyone else is using that definition. You should make up a new word or something because otherwise it's just confusing. "God is a belief that we do not know everything." Argh! Is there anyone on the planet who does believe we know everything? Please narrow your definition. Ironically, the only people I ever encounter who think they know everything are the religious. "I find such a belief a critical part of being a mature intellectual." I agree, but that's got nothing to do with religion, and it's not a "belief"! You are talking about Philosophy, not Theology.