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My god, people. Why is there so much dickish nitpicking in this thread? This is great news! It is mind blowing (to me at least) that basic knowledge of programm

My god, people. Why is there so much dickish nitpicking in this thread? This is great news! It is mind blowing (to me at least) that basic knowledge of programming is not a general requirement – and this is a step in the right direction, regardless of whether the terminology is exactly fucking correct or not.

vezzy-fnord 13y ago
It's not dickish nitpicking, it's expressing genuine concerns. Language is meant to be used properly. "Basic knowledge of programming" doesn't actually mean anything.
- sehr 13y ago
  Of course language is meant to be used properly. But judging by the bastardization of other technical phrases, (e.g. hacker) and their criticism, these discussions will amount to nothing. And in taking part in these discussions, we're really only shouting into an echo chamber. I seriously doubt many non technical people browse hacker news.
- lemonberry 13y ago
  How does "basic knowledge of programming" not mean anything? Almost every book on programming starts with "basics" section.
- StefanKarpinski 13y ago
  There is no such thing as "proper usage of language". Language means what we all agree that it means which is a consensus that evolves over time. Unlike programming languages, it has no fixed or proper meaning or usage. I think that most of us can agree that while it may not be precise, "basic knowledge of programming" does actually mean something. It is distinct from, say, basic knowledge of French or basic knowledge of juggling – hence, it means something. And from the number of upvotes my original post is getting, it seems that at least a few people agree that some of the commentary in this discussion is, in fact, dickish nitpicking.
gmichnikov 13y ago
As a 5th grade teacher who teaches "computer science" among other things, I completely agree that this is great news. Kids love learning about basic programming concepts, and they deserve the opportunity to be exposed to programming at a young age. If there are any other computer science teachers on HN, I'd love to hear about what you're up to (especially if you are using Scratch with young kids).
- rickyc091 13y ago
  I've found that kids can pick up on scratch, cs unplugged (http://csunplugged.org/ http://csunplugged.org/) and html/css fairly quickly.
- jrokisky 13y ago
  How did you become a computer science teacher? Did you get a degree in teaching? I have my degree in cs and am interested in becoming a teacher and trying to find as many options as possible.
  - alistairSH 13y ago
    In my county (suburban DC), it was roughly (I briefly considered moving into teaching in the early 2000s): - degree in related subject, typically math (CS is/was part of the math department in the county) - master's degree in education, or some other combination of post-graduate work that qualifies for a teaching certificate. My degree in Economics, with a minor in CS, didn't come close to qualifying me to teach CS in high school. Not that it should have by default. But, it does make me wonder where Chicago will find CS teachers. If they have to come from the ranks of those already qualified to teach math, that's not a very large pool.
  - gmichnikov 13y ago
    I joined a charter school network in NYC last summer. I am working on a teaching degree simultaneously (there is classwork during the year, but the bulk of the work was/will be during the summers on either side of this school year). I am teaching some 5th grade math and english in addition to computer science, though if the network is able to continue to grow, there are likely to be teachers teaching only 5th grade computer science in the very near future. Not many NYC middle schools (charter or otherwise), offer computer science to middle school students. For what it's worth, my undergrad was in economics. I know enough to teach Scratch to 5th graders, though I wouldn't sign up to teach AP Computer Science. Like alistairSH, I also wonder where the computer science teachers are going to come from. Genuinely wanting to work with kids every day is more important than any of this though, in my opinion. Definitely feel free to email me if you want to talk more about any of this.
anigbrowl 13y ago
Code cowboys realizing they're not going to be able to coast to an early retirement.

vezzy-fnord 13y ago

It's not dickish nitpicking, it's expressing genuine concerns. Language is meant to be used properly. "Basic knowledge of programming" doesn't actually mean anything.

sehr 13y ago
Of course language is meant to be used properly. But judging by the bastardization of other technical phrases, (e.g. hacker) and their criticism, these discussions will amount to nothing. And in taking part in these discussions, we're really only shouting into an echo chamber. I seriously doubt many non technical people browse hacker news.
lemonberry 13y ago
How does "basic knowledge of programming" not mean anything? Almost every book on programming starts with "basics" section.
StefanKarpinski 13y ago
There is no such thing as "proper usage of language". Language means what we all agree that it means which is a consensus that evolves over time. Unlike programming languages, it has no fixed or proper meaning or usage. I think that most of us can agree that while it may not be precise, "basic knowledge of programming" does actually mean something. It is distinct from, say, basic knowledge of French or basic knowledge of juggling – hence, it means something. And from the number of upvotes my original post is getting, it seems that at least a few people agree that some of the commentary in this discussion is, in fact, dickish nitpicking.

gmichnikov 13y ago

As a 5th grade teacher who teaches "computer science" among other things, I completely agree that this is great news. Kids love learning about basic programming concepts, and they deserve the opportunity to be exposed to programming at a young age. If there are any other computer science teachers on HN, I'd love to hear about what you're up to (especially if you are using Scratch with young kids).

rickyc091 13y ago
I've found that kids can pick up on scratch, cs unplugged (http://csunplugged.org/ http://csunplugged.org/) and html/css fairly quickly.
jrokisky 13y ago
How did you become a computer science teacher? Did you get a degree in teaching? I have my degree in cs and am interested in becoming a teacher and trying to find as many options as possible.
- alistairSH 13y ago
  In my county (suburban DC), it was roughly (I briefly considered moving into teaching in the early 2000s): - degree in related subject, typically math (CS is/was part of the math department in the county) - master's degree in education, or some other combination of post-graduate work that qualifies for a teaching certificate. My degree in Economics, with a minor in CS, didn't come close to qualifying me to teach CS in high school. Not that it should have by default. But, it does make me wonder where Chicago will find CS teachers. If they have to come from the ranks of those already qualified to teach math, that's not a very large pool.
- gmichnikov 13y ago
  I joined a charter school network in NYC last summer. I am working on a teaching degree simultaneously (there is classwork during the year, but the bulk of the work was/will be during the summers on either side of this school year). I am teaching some 5th grade math and english in addition to computer science, though if the network is able to continue to grow, there are likely to be teachers teaching only 5th grade computer science in the very near future. Not many NYC middle schools (charter or otherwise), offer computer science to middle school students. For what it's worth, my undergrad was in economics. I know enough to teach Scratch to 5th graders, though I wouldn't sign up to teach AP Computer Science. Like alistairSH, I also wonder where the computer science teachers are going to come from. Genuinely wanting to work with kids every day is more important than any of this though, in my opinion. Definitely feel free to email me if you want to talk more about any of this.

anigbrowl 13y ago

Code cowboys realizing they're not going to be able to coast to an early retirement.