9 ms·

I am proud that the technology industry, of which I am a part, has created Bill Gates, a living saint.

by paul_f 13y ago

simias 13y ago
Mmmh, I'm trying really hard not to be contrarian for the sake of it but "a living saint" seems a little too strong an expression. I mean, of course what he does is awesome and I'll probably never be in a position to do anything remotely that significant in my life but I feel it's easier to do that kind of stuff when you're that insanely rich. That being said he could probably as easily not do it, so props to him for that. He seems like a good man, saint or not. Humans are rarely all black or all white, that's what makes us interesting.
- svenkatesh 13y ago
  But, there are many wealthy people who do not give their time and money over to philanthropy. Conversely, there are many who are not wealthy who also do lots of charity work (could be something as small as volunteering in a soup kitchen on Christmas or Thanksgiving, helping out at the local hospital, spending time at a nursing or retirement home, etc.). I know many people who fall into this category.
- prawn 13y ago
  So many saints are considered as much for far less than he's helping accomplish.
tptacek 13y ago
I don't think he's a saint. I think a lot of people on HN, given the same resources Gates has, would do substantially similar things with their lives. It seems like incredibly rewarding and important work. I'm just really glad he chose to do it.
- graycat 13y ago
  And what is the role of his wife and her schooling from nuns?
  - tptacek 13y ago
    I don't know, but modern Catholic nuns are kind of bad-ass. For instance, the Ursulines who taught Melinda Gates recently gave a middle finger to the Catholic hierarchy and vocally defended Gates' work despite its support for contraception. Wherever you look for close-minded reactionary people stuck in the 1950s chastising members of their own church for unapproved good works, chances are you'll see nuns on the other side of the argument. I don't doubt that there are a whole lot of bad nuns out there (though just typing those words seems kind of silly to me), but in the modern organized faith they seem like one of the bright spots.
    - judk 13y ago
      Do also note that the top of that hierarchy, the current Pope, is dragging the ethical values of the Catholic Church forward through the centuries, despite significant baggage he can't be expected to just discard (though he should if he could)
      - tptacek 13y ago
        The Jesuits are another bright spot in the Catholic church. I had four years of Jesuit high school, and everything people like us seem to like about Pope Frank plays right to the Jesuit type.
    - graycat 13y ago
      I have been guessing that the nuns that taught Melinda got her highly devoted to 'charity' in some general sense and that she and Bill had a 'deal': After he worked his tail off at Microsoft to make a lot of money and, thus, necessarily spent a lot of time at the office instead of at home with her and the kids, he was to back off from an active role at Microsoft, e.g., be just COB, and, then, join with her in using much of the money for charity. So, in this way Melinda would get to pursue the goals and values of charity she got from her nuns. Just a guess. I could make this guess because my wife, her sisters, and their mother were all highly devoted to a life of charity via 'volunteer' work, and much of the origin of their interests in charity was from Christian religion, although in their case Methodist instead of Roman Catholic. But, 'deal' with Bill or not, the record seems to be that Melinda is one heck of a 'super fundraiser': She also got Buffett to hand over much or nearly all of his fortune. Then she publicized the value that any really wealthy person should leave 50% or so to charity. So, I'm guessing that the nuns got Melinda to get Bill and others to cough up $100 billion and counting. And what is Melinda's 'sales pitch?" My guess is just total sincerity with nothing for herself, no money, of course not, but neither fame, status, prestige, etc. It seems to me that in charity Melinda is fairly closely following the values of the nuns. And she did one more: As we know, just having the money and giving it away does not necessarily do much to 'alleviate human suffering' or 'improve the world' as the nuns might want. Instead, giving the money away in effective ways is hard work. So, Melinda got Bill dedicated to the work, and Bill is a bright guy who knows the heck how to get things done. I'm suspecting that heavily Melinda, and before her her nuns, are the real driving force behind all of this. Instead, Bill might be driving/racing Porsche cars! Finally, we have to suspect that 'hard hearted', no nonsense, bottom line oriented, take no prisoners Bill is totally taken with, in awe of, head over heels in love with, and has awesome respect for Melinda. But then some such fits: Supposedly Bill's mother was a big influence on Bill, and a boy with a good mother tends to look for a wife much like his mother. It's nice that tough guy Bill is now harnessed as a very bright and capable horse pulling the wagon of Melinda and her nuns!
- rplnt 13y ago
  One could hope so.. but given the number of millionaires (I mean tens and hundreds if not thousands of millions) all over the world not doing this makes me thing it would be like that (of course HN isn't representative of the world, but still). (I interpreted your "a lot" as most, given the small number of people here)
  - mgkimsal 13y ago
    There are a load of 'millionaires' that are still busy keeping their company going/growing, which is where their money comes from. The people like Bill Gate - the billionaires many times over - they have the luxury of time to decide what to do, and the money to make it happen. No doubt there are many millionaires with the luxury of free time, but probably not as many as you think. Meaning, if they stopped doing what they're doing, the money would mostly go away pretty quickly.
- gfodor 13y ago
  Yeah right. Most of the people on HN will never quit the game, and will keep trying to make more money until they have one foot in the grave. (And no, I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with this.) Gates got to a point where he knew his time as a competitive capitalist was over, and that his time as a generous philanthropist had begun. This isn't about net worth, this is about making that choice at a point where you still are physically, mentally, and financially able to have an impact. Anyone who has a good exit has sufficient resources to no longer work and could make a similar choice, even if they won't have the same net impact as Gates. But most of them don't. Most of the people at Gates' level don't either. It's commendable.
  - phaus 13y ago
    >Most of the people on HN will never quit the game, and will keep trying to make more money until they have one foot in the grave. That's because, as was already stated, most of them won't have billions of dollars. If they did, they would probably at some point start thinking about something besides personal wealth. >Anyone who has a good exit has sufficient resources to no longer work and could make a similar choice, even if they won't have the same net impact as Gates. Getting a good exit is only slightly more likely than winning the lottery. You make it sound like most of us here at HN will be millionaires. That's just ridiculous.
tn13 13y ago
Well, I think Sainthood is given to those people who work out of their religious beliefs and are busy glorifying poverty and suffering (Example: Mother Teresa). Gates is a not a saint he is just a philanthropists and a good one at that.
- tptacek 13y ago
  If Mother Teresa is the one modern venerated person you've heard of, I guess that would be a reasonable summary of the meaning of Catholic sainthood. I agree though with the underlying point, which is that "sainthood" is a political concept that isn't relevant to the work being done by the Gates Foundation.
pizza234 13y ago
I feel exaclty the opposite, of both the technology industry, and Bill gates. It's really easy to be charitable when you can't even count the money you have. In addition to that, it's also easy to invest your time in charity when you left a company you worked for, with exceptional intensity, for a life, and suddenly you have nothing to do anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Bill Gates is "evil". I'm saying that there is very little to admire in such behavior. Most of the people, with unlimited money and time, and having exhausted their stack of accomplishments, would do the same. Secondly, the root of the main problems around the world is not technological, but social in nature. And again, don't get me wrong, it's good to cure people, invent cleaning bacteria, cleaner energy etc.etc. If you don't work out the social root, it's going to be a whack-a-mole game.
- ArtDev 13y ago
  The Gates Foundation is different than other charities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundati...
- greeneggs 13y ago
  "It's really easy to be charitable when you can't even count the money you have. In addition to that, it's also easy to invest your time in charity when you left a company you worked for, with exceptional intensity, for a life, and suddenly you have nothing to do anymore... Most of the people, with unlimited money and time, and having exhausted their stack of accomplishments, would do the same." Whether or not it is easy, not only don't most billionaires invest anywhere near as much money or time as Gates into charity, almost none of them do. Check out the Forbes list of 20 billionaires if you don't believe me [1]. A typical example: "At a then estimated $16.3 billion net worth, she contributed a total of $3.5 million cumulatively between 2002 and 2006." [2] [1] http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/ http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/ [2] http://www.facesofphilanthropy.com/christy-walton/ http://www.facesofphilanthropy.com/christy-walton/

I am proud that the technology industry, of which I am a part, has created Bill Gates, a living saint.

by paul_f 13y ago

I am proud that the technology industry, of which I am a part, has created Bill Gates, a living saint.

Mmmh, I'm trying really hard not to be contrarian for the sake of it but "a living saint" seems a little too strong an expression. I mean, of course what he does is awesome and I'll probably never be in a position to do anything remotely that significant in my life but I feel it's easier to do that kind of stuff when you're that insanely rich. That being said he could probably as easily not do it, so props to him for that. He seems like a good man, saint or not. Humans are rarely all black or all white, that's what makes us interesting.

svenkatesh 13y ago
But, there are many wealthy people who do not give their time and money over to philanthropy. Conversely, there are many who are not wealthy who also do lots of charity work (could be something as small as volunteering in a soup kitchen on Christmas or Thanksgiving, helping out at the local hospital, spending time at a nursing or retirement home, etc.). I know many people who fall into this category.
prawn 13y ago
So many saints are considered as much for far less than he's helping accomplish.

tptacek 13y ago

I don't think he's a saint. I think a lot of people on HN, given the same resources Gates has, would do substantially similar things with their lives. It seems like incredibly rewarding and important work. I'm just really glad he chose to do it.

graycat 13y ago
And what is the role of his wife and her schooling from nuns?
- tptacek 13y ago
  I don't know, but modern Catholic nuns are kind of bad-ass. For instance, the Ursulines who taught Melinda Gates recently gave a middle finger to the Catholic hierarchy and vocally defended Gates' work despite its support for contraception. Wherever you look for close-minded reactionary people stuck in the 1950s chastising members of their own church for unapproved good works, chances are you'll see nuns on the other side of the argument. I don't doubt that there are a whole lot of bad nuns out there (though just typing those words seems kind of silly to me), but in the modern organized faith they seem like one of the bright spots.
  - judk 13y ago
    Do also note that the top of that hierarchy, the current Pope, is dragging the ethical values of the Catholic Church forward through the centuries, despite significant baggage he can't be expected to just discard (though he should if he could)
    - tptacek 13y ago
      The Jesuits are another bright spot in the Catholic church. I had four years of Jesuit high school, and everything people like us seem to like about Pope Frank plays right to the Jesuit type.
  - graycat 13y ago
    I have been guessing that the nuns that taught Melinda got her highly devoted to 'charity' in some general sense and that she and Bill had a 'deal': After he worked his tail off at Microsoft to make a lot of money and, thus, necessarily spent a lot of time at the office instead of at home with her and the kids, he was to back off from an active role at Microsoft, e.g., be just COB, and, then, join with her in using much of the money for charity. So, in this way Melinda would get to pursue the goals and values of charity she got from her nuns. Just a guess. I could make this guess because my wife, her sisters, and their mother were all highly devoted to a life of charity via 'volunteer' work, and much of the origin of their interests in charity was from Christian religion, although in their case Methodist instead of Roman Catholic. But, 'deal' with Bill or not, the record seems to be that Melinda is one heck of a 'super fundraiser': She also got Buffett to hand over much or nearly all of his fortune. Then she publicized the value that any really wealthy person should leave 50% or so to charity. So, I'm guessing that the nuns got Melinda to get Bill and others to cough up $100 billion and counting. And what is Melinda's 'sales pitch?" My guess is just total sincerity with nothing for herself, no money, of course not, but neither fame, status, prestige, etc. It seems to me that in charity Melinda is fairly closely following the values of the nuns. And she did one more: As we know, just having the money and giving it away does not necessarily do much to 'alleviate human suffering' or 'improve the world' as the nuns might want. Instead, giving the money away in effective ways is hard work. So, Melinda got Bill dedicated to the work, and Bill is a bright guy who knows the heck how to get things done. I'm suspecting that heavily Melinda, and before her her nuns, are the real driving force behind all of this. Instead, Bill might be driving/racing Porsche cars! Finally, we have to suspect that 'hard hearted', no nonsense, bottom line oriented, take no prisoners Bill is totally taken with, in awe of, head over heels in love with, and has awesome respect for Melinda. But then some such fits: Supposedly Bill's mother was a big influence on Bill, and a boy with a good mother tends to look for a wife much like his mother. It's nice that tough guy Bill is now harnessed as a very bright and capable horse pulling the wagon of Melinda and her nuns!
rplnt 13y ago
One could hope so.. but given the number of millionaires (I mean tens and hundreds if not thousands of millions) all over the world not doing this makes me thing it would be like that (of course HN isn't representative of the world, but still). (I interpreted your "a lot" as most, given the small number of people here)
- mgkimsal 13y ago
  There are a load of 'millionaires' that are still busy keeping their company going/growing, which is where their money comes from. The people like Bill Gate - the billionaires many times over - they have the luxury of time to decide what to do, and the money to make it happen. No doubt there are many millionaires with the luxury of free time, but probably not as many as you think. Meaning, if they stopped doing what they're doing, the money would mostly go away pretty quickly.
gfodor 13y ago
Yeah right. Most of the people on HN will never quit the game, and will keep trying to make more money until they have one foot in the grave. (And no, I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with this.) Gates got to a point where he knew his time as a competitive capitalist was over, and that his time as a generous philanthropist had begun. This isn't about net worth, this is about making that choice at a point where you still are physically, mentally, and financially able to have an impact. Anyone who has a good exit has sufficient resources to no longer work and could make a similar choice, even if they won't have the same net impact as Gates. But most of them don't. Most of the people at Gates' level don't either. It's commendable.
- phaus 13y ago
  >Most of the people on HN will never quit the game, and will keep trying to make more money until they have one foot in the grave. That's because, as was already stated, most of them won't have billions of dollars. If they did, they would probably at some point start thinking about something besides personal wealth. >Anyone who has a good exit has sufficient resources to no longer work and could make a similar choice, even if they won't have the same net impact as Gates. Getting a good exit is only slightly more likely than winning the lottery. You make it sound like most of us here at HN will be millionaires. That's just ridiculous.

tn13 13y ago

Well, I think Sainthood is given to those people who work out of their religious beliefs and are busy glorifying poverty and suffering (Example: Mother Teresa). Gates is a not a saint he is just a philanthropists and a good one at that.

tptacek 13y ago
If Mother Teresa is the one modern venerated person you've heard of, I guess that would be a reasonable summary of the meaning of Catholic sainthood. I agree though with the underlying point, which is that "sainthood" is a political concept that isn't relevant to the work being done by the Gates Foundation.

pizza234 13y ago

I feel exaclty the opposite, of both the technology industry, and Bill gates. It's really easy to be charitable when you can't even count the money you have. In addition to that, it's also easy to invest your time in charity when you left a company you worked for, with exceptional intensity, for a life, and suddenly you have nothing to do anymore. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Bill Gates is "evil". I'm saying that there is very little to admire in such behavior. Most of the people, with unlimited money and time, and having exhausted their stack of accomplishments, would do the same. Secondly, the root of the main problems around the world is not technological, but social in nature. And again, don't get me wrong, it's good to cure people, invent cleaning bacteria, cleaner energy etc.etc. If you don't work out the social root, it's going to be a whack-a-mole game.

ArtDev 13y ago
The Gates Foundation is different than other charities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundati...
greeneggs 13y ago
"It's really easy to be charitable when you can't even count the money you have. In addition to that, it's also easy to invest your time in charity when you left a company you worked for, with exceptional intensity, for a life, and suddenly you have nothing to do anymore... Most of the people, with unlimited money and time, and having exhausted their stack of accomplishments, would do the same." Whether or not it is easy, not only don't most billionaires invest anywhere near as much money or time as Gates into charity, almost none of them do. Check out the Forbes list of 20 billionaires if you don't believe me [1]. A typical example: "At a then estimated $16.3 billion net worth, she contributed a total of $3.5 million cumulatively between 2002 and 2006." [2] [1] http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/ http://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/ [2] http://www.facesofphilanthropy.com/christy-walton/ http://www.facesofphilanthropy.com/christy-walton/