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> To insist on a "color blind" view of society, our industry, etc. is to deny the real experience of people of color within it, who have found discrimination an
by javert 13y ago
> To insist on a "color blind" view of society, our industry, etc. is to deny the real experience of people of color within it, who have found discrimination and prejudice.
I inisit on color blindness in all kinds of social, business, and political relationships, but I do not deny that blacks have a much tougher time, other things being equal.
Race-based discrimination, whether supposedly for or against blacks, does not actually provide value for blacks in general in the long run, and neither does it provide value for non-blacks.
As a side note, other things are not equal. For instance, coming from an abusive family in America is probably much more of a disadvantage than being black. We need to stop fetishizing race in particular.
- SwellJoe 13y ago"We need to stop fetishizing race in particular." Who is "festishizing race"? And, what does that phrase mean in this context? Do you believe I'm fetishizing race? Or OP? Or some other comment in this thread? I'm merely saying that to insist that race not be part of the conversation is a passive approach to maintaining the status quo. Or, to quote Elie Wiesel: "We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim."
- ricardobeat 13y agoBut this is not a fight, or it shouldn't be. There is no need to "take sides". The pattern of under-represented ethnicities can be seen all over, should it be brought up in every conversation? It is a reflex of beliefs and behaviours in our society that we want to get rid of, not perpetuate. Encouraging people to discriminate based on race would be the status quo, ignoring it is the exact opposite.
- JoeAltmaier 13y agostatus quo? Are you talking about your parents' generation? I don't recall such an incident in my experience in the last few decades. Maybe I'm just sheltered or something; make up your own excuse to ignore me. But I think there's a generation who's made real progress. I would think the conversation would change; but I guess its easier to just repeat the same diatribe than draw from your own experiences or statistics or something solid?
- ricardobeat 13y agoJust following the parent's train of thought. I agree.
- SwellJoe 13y ago"The pattern of under-represented ethnicities can be seen all over, should it be brought up in every conversation?" In every conversation? No. In a conversation about the under-representation of minorities in tech? Yes. "Encouraging people to discriminate based on race is the status quo, ignoring it is the exact opposite." Ignoring oppression is not the opposite. It is the tacit approval of oppression.
- ricardobeat 13y ago> Ignoring oppression is not the opposite. It is the tacit approval of oppression. I agree wholeheartedly. And you should fight the opressor. I understand the need to relate by example, but am I wrong to insist on a reality where race/ethnicity has jack to do with success in tech entrepreneurship?
- jacalata 13y agoWrong to want reality to be like that? No. Wrong to say that reality is like that today? Maybe, where's your evidence?
- javert 13y agoYou are taking an irrelevant afterthought to my main point and focusing on it. By "fetishing" I mean "treating as extremely important in a way that reality does not justify." > I'm merely saying that to insist that race not be part of the conversation is a passive approach to maintaining the status quo. I'm fine conversing about race. But I don't think that you are actually advocating simply for more conversation. I think you are trying to oppose what I am advocating. I am advocating that as individuals, we should treat other individuals in a colorblind way. I do not think that that would maintain the status quo, I think it would significantly improve the status quo over time.