4 ms·

That seems like an odd strategy to me; like "no really, you can do it look these other black people did it"--as i would expect the merits/benefits of programmin

by eof 13y ago

That seems like an odd strategy to me; like "no really, you can do it look these other black people did it"--as i would expect the merits/benefits of programming itself to be the main motivating factors. Perhaps I am underestimating the amount of self-imposed race-based limiting factors; which makes me sad and surprised. On the one hand I want to say, "please focus on the fact that they can do anything they want; and this is a great thing to do"--and on the other, if showing them African American's doing it will be significant toward getting some of them into programming; then by all means. I have no idea about yc; but you might find this answer on quora useful: http://www.quora.com/Who-are-some-notable-African-American-founders-entrepreneurs-and-executives-in-Silicon-Valley http://www.quora.com/Who-are-some-notable-African-American-f...

SoundExecution 13y ago
Being able to "see yourself" in a certain position, or discovering that a particular avenue for success is "culturally acceptable" is definitive in breaking the mold and helping young minorities expand their horizons. In short, race matters when considering positive role models, Penguin's efforts should be applauded.
Edmond 13y ago
Yes you are definitely "underestimating the amount of self-imposed race-based limiting factors;"...It is true for many kids not just African Americans, seeing people you can identify with even if just superficially can influence how you view certain careers/professions.
SwellJoe 13y ago
For a white kid in America, race doesn't matter, in this, or almost any other context. For a black kid, seeing black people in leadership roles does matter. It's a reality that for many poor black kids in America, the only obvious path out of poverty is sports or drugs, neither of which are very good options...especially for nerdy black kids living in poverty. That's not to say entrepreneurship is an obvious path out of poverty for anyone (white or black), but being technically savvy is extremely good for your value in the employment market, no matter what you choose to do. Anyway, I believe you are underestimating the amount of self-imposed race-based limiting factors. I think we're all probably also underestimating the external society-imposed limiting factors on people of color in America, as well (because most of the people on HN are white, grew up in a middle class household, and male).
- tomc1985 13y ago
  Then maybe we should be doing more to engender an attitude of calculated risk-taking. The dearth of leadership that fits whatever category you can come up with (race, education level, gender, whatever) can be overcome with tenacity and courage. Maybe we shouldn't be selling these kids on people who are like them. Maybe we shouldn't continue promoting a concept as poisonous as racial consciousness. Maybe teach these folks to disregard role models...
pessimizer 13y ago
If you've never seen or heard of a person that shares a major trait with you doing a particular thing, but you know that people with that characteristic are common, you probably don't think that you can do that thing either. In addition, it's not at all unreasonable to think that way. Why waste your time on something that you will ultimately likely not be allowed to do? That's good decisionmaking, not "self-imposed race-based limiting factors."
acjohnson55 13y ago
Why are so many diners in NYC owned by Greeks? Why are so many corner stores owned by people of Arab heritage? Why are so many basketball players and musicians black? Why are so many CEOs white? Why are so many doctors South or East Asian? Having a clear line of progression into a career, validated by people you feel connected to, is important. I would say that having a familial connection is strongest, followed by a social connection, and lastly followed by cultural/ethnic connection. For many of these kids, the first two types of connection are already very weak for high paying careers. Well, at least for those careers that have reasonable prospects of success (ruling out music performance and sports). It can be transformative to these kids to have some example to follow. Believe it or not, not everyone in America is born believing in the reality of the American Dream. It just seems that way to many, because they have been surrounded by people for whom the American system is working from their earliest memories. Many others grow up awash in evidence the game is strongly rigged against them. If that's what the preponderance of evidence tells you, then why try? I would go further and say that not all the limits black people face in this country are self-imposed. Even if you're doing all the right things, there is a burden to constantly prove you're not one of those black people on the evening news. Not to mention, black people disproportionately lack the privileges of wealth and social connections compared to other ethnicities. This leads to a vicious cycle of self-fulfilling prophecy on the perceived capabilities of black people, as perceived from both within and outside of many black communities. I would argue that institutions should feel some responsibility to recognize these inequalities and even act against them in ways that align with their philosophies.

by eof 13y ago

SoundExecution 13y ago

Being able to "see yourself" in a certain position, or discovering that a particular avenue for success is "culturally acceptable" is definitive in breaking the mold and helping young minorities expand their horizons. In short, race matters when considering positive role models, Penguin's efforts should be applauded.

Edmond 13y ago

Yes you are definitely "underestimating the amount of self-imposed race-based limiting factors;"...It is true for many kids not just African Americans, seeing people you can identify with even if just superficially can influence how you view certain careers/professions.

SwellJoe 13y ago

For a white kid in America, race doesn't matter, in this, or almost any other context. For a black kid, seeing black people in leadership roles does matter. It's a reality that for many poor black kids in America, the only obvious path out of poverty is sports or drugs, neither of which are very good options...especially for nerdy black kids living in poverty. That's not to say entrepreneurship is an obvious path out of poverty for anyone (white or black), but being technically savvy is extremely good for your value in the employment market, no matter what you choose to do. Anyway, I believe you are underestimating the amount of self-imposed race-based limiting factors. I think we're all probably also underestimating the external society-imposed limiting factors on people of color in America, as well (because most of the people on HN are white, grew up in a middle class household, and male).

tomc1985 13y ago
Then maybe we should be doing more to engender an attitude of calculated risk-taking. The dearth of leadership that fits whatever category you can come up with (race, education level, gender, whatever) can be overcome with tenacity and courage. Maybe we shouldn't be selling these kids on people who are like them. Maybe we shouldn't continue promoting a concept as poisonous as racial consciousness. Maybe teach these folks to disregard role models...

pessimizer 13y ago

If you've never seen or heard of a person that shares a major trait with you doing a particular thing, but you know that people with that characteristic are common, you probably don't think that you can do that thing either. In addition, it's not at all unreasonable to think that way. Why waste your time on something that you will ultimately likely not be allowed to do? That's good decisionmaking, not "self-imposed race-based limiting factors."

acjohnson55 13y ago

Why are so many diners in NYC owned by Greeks? Why are so many corner stores owned by people of Arab heritage? Why are so many basketball players and musicians black? Why are so many CEOs white? Why are so many doctors South or East Asian? Having a clear line of progression into a career, validated by people you feel connected to, is important. I would say that having a familial connection is strongest, followed by a social connection, and lastly followed by cultural/ethnic connection. For many of these kids, the first two types of connection are already very weak for high paying careers. Well, at least for those careers that have reasonable prospects of success (ruling out music performance and sports). It can be transformative to these kids to have some example to follow. Believe it or not, not everyone in America is born believing in the reality of the American Dream. It just seems that way to many, because they have been surrounded by people for whom the American system is working from their earliest memories. Many others grow up awash in evidence the game is strongly rigged against them. If that's what the preponderance of evidence tells you, then why try? I would go further and say that not all the limits black people face in this country are self-imposed. Even if you're doing all the right things, there is a burden to constantly prove you're not one of those black people on the evening news. Not to mention, black people disproportionately lack the privileges of wealth and social connections compared to other ethnicities. This leads to a vicious cycle of self-fulfilling prophecy on the perceived capabilities of black people, as perceived from both within and outside of many black communities. I would argue that institutions should feel some responsibility to recognize these inequalities and even act against them in ways that align with their philosophies.