4 ms·

5s startup time for a web framework seems rather high. I wonder how well it compares to similar frameworks in other languages (Django? ASP.NET MVC?)

x1024 13y ago
Eh... no it doesn't.
- briantakita 13y ago
  It is when your development process involves rapidly iterating the code by running the process many times (i.e. TDD). Anecdotally, when the feedback loop is tighter, I'm much happier. Developing (especially refactoring) in Rails feels like watching paint dry, since it's soooooo slooooow. Every time the process needs to restart, I'm left hanging........waiting......for..............the.............. ..........process.......................to.................... ...................................................s.......... ................t.............................a............... ..............r............................................... ..tttt........... Also the benchmark is the best case. In real world projects, I've seen Rails take over 60 seconds to start (it took a few days of development effort to bring it down to ~20 seconds). Every time you rerun tests, run a rake task, start or restart your server, etc. It's like the heartbeat of the development process grinds to a halt when you add more features to your Rails server. And no, tools like Spork are not the answer, since you still have to balance the amount that is resident in memory to fork with coverage of what you can change. It also opens up a fractal of complexity.
  - tawm 13y ago
    Oh god. Please edit your comment so it doesn't break the whole layout.
    - briantakita 13y ago
      No can do. It got downvoted and HN does not allow me to edit negative karma posts. So please upvote my previous post so I can fix the layout of these comments :-) I'm assuming the negative votes are due to the formatting and not the message. I hope you, dear reader, don't miss the irony of this situation... If it's downvotes because of the message, well I feel bad for the downvoters and wish them much luck with using their framework.
      - Udo 13y ago
        You missed the edit window. If you don't come back and edit your post within one hour, it's locked. Negative karma has nothing to do with it. That's the risk of fire-and-forget posting.
        briantakita 13y ago
        Or it's the risk of failing to account for human behavior... It's not exactly a moral imperative to obsess over your HN comments, IMO. Most likely, it's a simple bug, that seems to be fixed now :-) No ethics involved. Nothing to see here. Btw, in the OP, I was trying to express the effect that the increased startup time affects flow and iteration. It's a similar effect to a comment breaking the layout of the page. I just learned something new today :-)
lowmagnet 13y ago
How many times does your framework start up?
jeltz 13y ago
It does not compare well to other frameworks in Ruby either.

x1024 13y ago

Eh... no it doesn't.

briantakita 13y ago
It is when your development process involves rapidly iterating the code by running the process many times (i.e. TDD). Anecdotally, when the feedback loop is tighter, I'm much happier. Developing (especially refactoring) in Rails feels like watching paint dry, since it's soooooo slooooow. Every time the process needs to restart, I'm left hanging........waiting......for..............the.............. ..........process.......................to.................... ...................................................s.......... ................t.............................a............... ..............r............................................... ..tttt........... Also the benchmark is the best case. In real world projects, I've seen Rails take over 60 seconds to start (it took a few days of development effort to bring it down to ~20 seconds). Every time you rerun tests, run a rake task, start or restart your server, etc. It's like the heartbeat of the development process grinds to a halt when you add more features to your Rails server. And no, tools like Spork are not the answer, since you still have to balance the amount that is resident in memory to fork with coverage of what you can change. It also opens up a fractal of complexity.
- tawm 13y ago
  Oh god. Please edit your comment so it doesn't break the whole layout.
  - briantakita 13y ago
    No can do. It got downvoted and HN does not allow me to edit negative karma posts. So please upvote my previous post so I can fix the layout of these comments :-) I'm assuming the negative votes are due to the formatting and not the message. I hope you, dear reader, don't miss the irony of this situation... If it's downvotes because of the message, well I feel bad for the downvoters and wish them much luck with using their framework.
    - Udo 13y ago
      You missed the edit window. If you don't come back and edit your post within one hour, it's locked. Negative karma has nothing to do with it. That's the risk of fire-and-forget posting.
      - briantakita 13y ago
        Or it's the risk of failing to account for human behavior... It's not exactly a moral imperative to obsess over your HN comments, IMO. Most likely, it's a simple bug, that seems to be fixed now :-) No ethics involved. Nothing to see here. Btw, in the OP, I was trying to express the effect that the increased startup time affects flow and iteration. It's a similar effect to a comment breaking the layout of the page. I just learned something new today :-)

lowmagnet 13y ago

How many times does your framework start up?

jeltz 13y ago

It does not compare well to other frameworks in Ruby either.