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> The key word is transparency. > Transparency to these people is like sunlight to a vampire. They will do anything to avoid it. I think it's the opposite. Pe

by S4M 13y ago

> The key word is transparency. > Transparency to these people is like sunlight to a vampire. They will do anything to avoid it. I think it's the opposite. People like that - I think michaelochurch calls them psychopaths - like, in my experience, be transparent (or at least, appear to be transparent, but in any case they will openly promote transparency). They will always have something to say. "I did this and that to make the system better and to share better information between us." They will be able to talk at length about what they are doing and how it will make everybody's life better.

AlexDanger 13y ago
Certainly these people are communicative, but that doesnt make them transparent. In my mind transparency implies an outsider having a reasonably accurate picture of the true state of affairs. These people (some of them psychopaths) will go to extraordinary lengths to convince as many people as possible that they are doing the great thing. >They will be able to talk at length about what they are doing and how it will make everybody's life better There is no crime in this. Everyone should think about these things. But I would argue that the malicious people need to spend more time communicating with many people to manage their perception - its almost like a propaganda war. >openly promote transparency This is vital information. If they openly promote transparency, you can use this attitude to suggest and implement real transparency in systems and workflows. Most of these people will recoil in horror at the idea of being exposed.
- a_olt 13y ago
  You are correct in that transparency is to those people like light is to vampires. If you (or anyone else) is interested in the academic treatment of these 'games' (that is what they are called), read Eric Berne's short book "Games People Play". In the book it is explained how what you called "transparency" can be achieved by giving the player the "antithesis" to his game.
  - AlexDanger 13y ago
    Brilliant, i'll check it out. Can you recommend further academic publications or research on this type of toxic behaviour in the workplace? What is the term for these people? Some of them are psychopaths but that seems a bit extreme for this range of behavioural traits.
wavefunction 13y ago
Sociopaths, not psychopaths. Psychopaths lack planning ability and often exhibit poor impulse control. They're often pretty easy to spot since their behavior is generally obvious. Sociopaths, on the other hand, are very much worse. They are clever enough to "pass" and to create and pursue long term plans. I have unfortunately worked with one guy that seemed to me to be pretty far along on that continuum of sociopathy. He was constantly backstabbing and manipulating and really fucked me over hard, all because he saw it as a way to get ahead. He lied, dissembled, and only in a truly transparent group setting was I able to call his actions out. I went on Christmas vacation with everything "good" with my team and came back to my manager asking me why my module was "completely fubared," according to my colleague. So I sat down with my manager and my accuser and went through the code line-by-line to explain the function and reasoning behind the code, then showed it working in our codebase repo. My accuser, with nothing else to throw at me said that he "had been confused by the names of the classes." He still managed to convince management that I didn't deserve a bonus and he did, despite his poor track record. THAT is the danger of these sorts of people, and a hard lesson learned that I _have_ to play politics enough that I am sure I am not being thrown under the bus rather than just focusing on being a creative and productive member of the team. While my manager and the accuser were good buddies through most of the project, the accuser's true nature began to shine through and now he's moved across the country, presumably with new bridges to burn.

by S4M 13y ago

AlexDanger 13y ago

Certainly these people are communicative, but that doesnt make them transparent. In my mind transparency implies an outsider having a reasonably accurate picture of the true state of affairs. These people (some of them psychopaths) will go to extraordinary lengths to convince as many people as possible that they are doing the great thing. >They will be able to talk at length about what they are doing and how it will make everybody's life better There is no crime in this. Everyone should think about these things. But I would argue that the malicious people need to spend more time communicating with many people to manage their perception - its almost like a propaganda war. >openly promote transparency This is vital information. If they openly promote transparency, you can use this attitude to suggest and implement real transparency in systems and workflows. Most of these people will recoil in horror at the idea of being exposed.

a_olt 13y ago
You are correct in that transparency is to those people like light is to vampires. If you (or anyone else) is interested in the academic treatment of these 'games' (that is what they are called), read Eric Berne's short book "Games People Play". In the book it is explained how what you called "transparency" can be achieved by giving the player the "antithesis" to his game.
- AlexDanger 13y ago
  Brilliant, i'll check it out. Can you recommend further academic publications or research on this type of toxic behaviour in the workplace? What is the term for these people? Some of them are psychopaths but that seems a bit extreme for this range of behavioural traits.

wavefunction 13y ago

Sociopaths, not psychopaths. Psychopaths lack planning ability and often exhibit poor impulse control. They're often pretty easy to spot since their behavior is generally obvious. Sociopaths, on the other hand, are very much worse. They are clever enough to "pass" and to create and pursue long term plans. I have unfortunately worked with one guy that seemed to me to be pretty far along on that continuum of sociopathy. He was constantly backstabbing and manipulating and really fucked me over hard, all because he saw it as a way to get ahead. He lied, dissembled, and only in a truly transparent group setting was I able to call his actions out. I went on Christmas vacation with everything "good" with my team and came back to my manager asking me why my module was "completely fubared," according to my colleague. So I sat down with my manager and my accuser and went through the code line-by-line to explain the function and reasoning behind the code, then showed it working in our codebase repo. My accuser, with nothing else to throw at me said that he "had been confused by the names of the classes." He still managed to convince management that I didn't deserve a bonus and he did, despite his poor track record. THAT is the danger of these sorts of people, and a hard lesson learned that I _have_ to play politics enough that I am sure I am not being thrown under the bus rather than just focusing on being a creative and productive member of the team. While my manager and the accuser were good buddies through most of the project, the accuser's true nature began to shine through and now he's moved across the country, presumably with new bridges to burn.