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I don't have the stamina to debate with libertarians, but I also have found that "beating them at their own game" is not a useful strategy. Suppose, for exampl

I don't have the stamina to debate with libertarians, but I also have found that "beating them at their own game" is not a useful strategy. Suppose, for example, you manage to prove to a libertarian that the current distribution of wealth is the result of unfair actions in the past. Then for them, the next best option would probably be to redistribute wealth, and then press "play". Which isn't what you wanted to argue for in the first place, so why make that argument? You say you have lost your taste for intellectual debate online, but I think you would regain it if you were to engage in real debate rather than point-scoring. Your starting point is that you know the truth, and it is "material" factors that prevent others from knowing this truth. But to have this point of view underestimates the power of debate and reason. But of course I can't really convince you that I haven't been subconsciously made blind to the intellectual power of Marxism by my comfortable middle class lifestyle.

kingraoul3 13y ago
>I don't have the stamina to debate with libertarians... Probably true; I guess my comment can thought of more as counter-propaganda. >Suppose, for example... I imagine if I could get someone to question the premises of their hateful, retrograde philosophy I could get them to engage in further inquiry, which might open their eyes. >You say you have lost your taste for intellectual debate online... True, but I could also cultivate other interests. I'm sure eventually it will entice me again, >Your starting point is that you know the truth Marxists don't believe in absolute truth. Do 'debate and reason' derive their power from the material world? It seems to me that they only exercise power in shaping one's consciousness to the degree that they reflect facts about the material world. Following on the heels of that, what facts about a humans physical presence in the world carry more import for every other facet of their life than their economic position (position meaning, in particular, class)? For what it's worth, people can and do argue against economic determinism. The degree of success that they have in that regard is a matter of continuing debate.

kingraoul3 13y ago

>I don't have the stamina to debate with libertarians... Probably true; I guess my comment can thought of more as counter-propaganda. >Suppose, for example... I imagine if I could get someone to question the premises of their hateful, retrograde philosophy I could get them to engage in further inquiry, which might open their eyes. >You say you have lost your taste for intellectual debate online... True, but I could also cultivate other interests. I'm sure eventually it will entice me again, >Your starting point is that you know the truth Marxists don't believe in absolute truth. Do 'debate and reason' derive their power from the material world? It seems to me that they only exercise power in shaping one's consciousness to the degree that they reflect facts about the material world. Following on the heels of that, what facts about a humans physical presence in the world carry more import for every other facet of their life than their economic position (position meaning, in particular, class)? For what it's worth, people can and do argue against economic determinism. The degree of success that they have in that regard is a matter of continuing debate.