6 ms·

Nursing Scholar Sheds Light on Bullying in Academia

33 points by codelion 13y ago

yogo 13y ago
I can only give them the same advice you would give to an 8 year old being bullied on the playground: fight the bullies. I don't get that whole awareness thing. Do you want someone else to step in and fight your battle? I realize that sometimes people think they have their hands tied when in a professional environment but fighting them yourselves will give you the quickest results.
- kghose 13y ago
  To be blunt, this is fairly useless advice. Awareness is important because this leads to support groups and official mechanisms to handle bullying. It also removes stigma.
  - yogo 13y ago
    You might be right now that the damage is done in some situations, but in many cultures where you teach kids to stand up for themselves, I think they'll be alright in adulthood. You might not win every fight, but you show up. After all, the problems and challenges you face in life can be broken down to run or fight.
    - whistlerbrk 13y ago
      I agree. Fight or flight is our instinct. But we teach children flight and tattle instead. So why is it a surprise when they grow up and can't handle any problems for themselves without guidance? Why are we perpetually fighting our instinct as humans? Our baser nature can be brutal sometimes, but if we completely suppress it when it does come out it is far far far worse. At some point, you need to say "no, I will not stand for this" and face your antagonist. In my experience once you do that, they either shrink away and cower forever or become a great ally.
      - vitd 13y ago
        So you advocate vigilantism instead of notifying the appropriate authorities? Shouldn't kids (or anyone being bullied) remove themselves from the situation and have the appropriate authority handle it? That seems like the more mature thing to do to me.
        whistlerbrk 13y ago
        Kids aren't mature. No, I don't advocate vigilantism. I advocate learning how to use the tools in your toolbox. If you have tried and failed to deal with something yourself, then you escalate. Same thing with everything. If you try and can't complete a math problem, you ask a peer for advice, then ask a teacher, etc.
        eschaton 13y ago
        So what do you suggest a victim do? How do you suggest a victim confront a bully? Ask them to please stop because it's not very nice, and maybe they're just not aware of it, and only once they escalate after that (and they will) go to an authority where it'll be treated as "not one-sided" due to that interaction?
      - eschaton 13y ago
        Your use of the term "tattle" makes it sound like perhaps you've done something someone didn't like in the past, and they reported it, and you had to deal with the consequences. If they'd just approached you directly everything would've been fine right? For you, at least.
    - kghose 13y ago
      It's curious to me that you think raising awareness is orthogonal to teaching people self respect.
    - actsasbuffoon 13y ago
      There are logical limits. I went to high school with a guy named Brad (name changed to protect his anonymity). Brad was walking home from work when he came across a couple of guys beating up one of his friends. He hopped in to save his friend and ended up killing one of the attackers. He's serving a life sentence in federal prison now. If he'd gone to the police then that boy would still be alive, and he'd be a free man. Framed in the context of run/fight it sounds like he did the courageous thing, but he also clearly did the wrong thing.
- karmajunkie 13y ago
  Said like a well-entrenched member of the machine... Bullying victims tend to be victims because they're unable to fight back. Bullies have power, whether it's physical, political, social, or otherwise, and they know it and hide behind it. Awareness campaigns seek to remove their power, and they are generally very effective. Bullies operate on the basis of isolating their victims, and bystanders that refuse to stand aside (physically, or by calling out the bully for what he or she is) prevent that isolation, giving the victim power of their own.
  - yogo 13y ago
    You and the sibling comment are exactly why bullies continue to bully their victims. I'm not part of any machine, I don't bully anyone and I don't get bullied because I believe in mutual respect among human beings. If a bully is using their power to bully someone, my point is you still put up a fight. When you don't it empowers them even more. I'm not arguing because I'm pretty sure we'll never agree on this, but some people go through life without this problem and all I'll say is that it's often good to have a take no shit attitude about things.
    - eschaton 13y ago
      Stop blaming the victim. Victim-blaming puts the onus on the victim to prevent something that is neither their fault nor their responsibility. You don't get bullied because you haven't been singled out by a bully, not because you "exhibit mutual respect" or for anything else you do. Awareness — which is essentially getting people to admit bullying is possible in their environment — makes it easier for victims to come forward and leverage what structures are in place to end (not "fight") bullying. It makes it possible for victims to (1) be believed instead of dismissed, (2) not be treated as responsible for the bullying themselves, and (3) taken seriously as to the extent and damage of the bullying they experience. Even in the schoolyard situations you allude to, bullying isn't a matter of either "ignore them and they'll leave you alone" or "even if you don't win, once you fight they'll leave you alone for a softer target." Whether a bully gives up on a victim is entirely up to the bully and the power structure in the environment, not the victim. The philosophy you describe actually makes the power structure unavailable to the victim — which all but guarantees bullying continues.
- jessaustin 13y ago
  Even if your advice is sound for many bullied individuals in many situations (and I think it is), most organizations have an interest in minimizing bullying, or at least directing it so as to achieve organizational goals. You can be sure that bullies do not have the organization's goals in mind when they're doing their thing. If the bullying is institutionalized so as to make the average person stronger or more effective (as the military and many sports teams would argue) it might be defensible, but that doesn't happen by chance.
- JamesLeonis 13y ago
  I hope you don't mean physically fighting, because we adults can earn an assault charge real quick. Likewise, the bully wants the victim to respond over the top because it cements their power over them. Even the 8 year old in the playground is at a disadvantage. The mentality of the bully is to quietly dominate the weaker out of authority and regulatory sight. They want the victim to blow your top publicly, because all the trouble falls upon said victim. The alternative is reporting behavior problems to the proper authorities, which depends greatly on how serious they treat the problem. If they are lax or ineffective, then there isn't any recourse for the victim except to remove themselves from the entire organization or field. This becomes greatly compounded when the bully is in a position of power over the victim. Reporting the behavior might put the victim's job in jeopardy. Raising awareness of the problem allows other victims, and their allies, to realize they aren't alone in their struggle. It also allows organizations to evaluate their reporting mechanisms to see if they are effective in responding to intimidating behavior. Is awareness effective? Unfortunately not always. However we should encourage strong reporting mechanisms in our institutions to allow the victims some recourse.
  - yogo 13y ago
    No, I mean fight in the generic sense. Whether it's a lawsuit, from a boss, etc. it's all really the same. Someone does something and they get away with it, and naturally that pattern continues (it's probably human nature at that point). The main reason for my "nip it in the bud" philosophy is because I fear that when it gets bad victims might react in an extreme way.
    - mandelbulb 13y ago
      Did you even read, let alone understand JamesLeonis' post? Bullying, by definition, arises from a powerful position onto a weaker victim. However, reversed situations exist as well. Power in this case doesn't have to be social power, like a higher job position or higher popularity. It can also be a more powerful personality e.g., due to better eloquence or more aggressive attitude. That is why in so many if not most case gaining your own allies who are aware of the issue is the only solution beside ignoring or fleeing.
  - 13y ago
- auctiontheory 13y ago
  How do you suggest "fighting" someone who has absolute control over your career - as is often the case in academia?
- altero 13y ago
  Good luck with that! (seriously) Many times bullies are well protected and are practically untouchable. For example they could be from minority, and any sort of complain makes anyone automatically racist. To win over administration one has to become victim himself. For example it is generally acceptable to bully nerds. So one has to be diagnosed with mild autism or social anxiety, before he can even hope for any sympathy. So now the bullies are consuming even free time outside work/school and destroy remaining self a steam. And winning price is usually low, and does not even cover expenses and lost time. Bully may get short holiday, but usually returns to same position.
  - acjohnson55 13y ago
    The best example of bullying you came up with is minorities bullying people?
    - altero 13y ago
      No. My example is when MEMBER of minority (or other protected group) bullies other people. In that case it is much harder to fight bully.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- barry-cotter 13y ago
  The usual best response to bullying is the same as to sexual harassment; leave. You're not in school anymore, no one can force you to go back. You are not responsible to other people you don't know, at a cost to yourself.
  - karmajunkie 13y ago
    I have to ask, do you ever look at what you've just typed before you hit "reply"?
    - barry-cotter 13y ago
      If you have a point, out with it, if not, why did you post that?
      - karmajunkie 13y ago
        My point was that you've managed to blame the victim TWICE in once sentence. Its not my responsibility to leave the environment when I'm being harassed; its the responsibility of the hierarchy of power to address the bully or harassers. Therefore leaving is only the "best" response if you are interested in protecting the ability of bullies and harassers to continue their behavior.
mrcactu5 13y ago
I have never seen the term bullying applied this way. It is everywhere people have been murmuring about this for years, but I have never seen anyone be outspoken about this outside of elementary or middle school. It is everywhere - it has altered peoples lives and careers. As an adult we are quietly doing these "microagressions" to each other constantly.
pmiller2 13y ago
This isn't news to anyone who's read the Chronicle of Education in the past 5 or 10 years, unfortunately. Academia is probably the perfect environment for this sort of thing to take place because you have people so entrenched they literally can't be fired for much short of gross incompetence or going to prison. Since the tenure process takes 6 years, waiting it out isn't exactly a solution. What tends to happen is that the bullied party moves on, and a lot of times, the next person to come in is bullied as well.
moron4hire 13y ago
One person's bullying in the workplace is another person's not putting up with excuses for substandard work.

33 points by codelion 13y ago

yogo 13y ago

I can only give them the same advice you would give to an 8 year old being bullied on the playground: fight the bullies. I don't get that whole awareness thing. Do you want someone else to step in and fight your battle? I realize that sometimes people think they have their hands tied when in a professional environment but fighting them yourselves will give you the quickest results.

kghose 13y ago
To be blunt, this is fairly useless advice. Awareness is important because this leads to support groups and official mechanisms to handle bullying. It also removes stigma.
- yogo 13y ago
  You might be right now that the damage is done in some situations, but in many cultures where you teach kids to stand up for themselves, I think they'll be alright in adulthood. You might not win every fight, but you show up. After all, the problems and challenges you face in life can be broken down to run or fight.
  - whistlerbrk 13y ago
    I agree. Fight or flight is our instinct. But we teach children flight and tattle instead. So why is it a surprise when they grow up and can't handle any problems for themselves without guidance? Why are we perpetually fighting our instinct as humans? Our baser nature can be brutal sometimes, but if we completely suppress it when it does come out it is far far far worse. At some point, you need to say "no, I will not stand for this" and face your antagonist. In my experience once you do that, they either shrink away and cower forever or become a great ally.
    - vitd 13y ago
      So you advocate vigilantism instead of notifying the appropriate authorities? Shouldn't kids (or anyone being bullied) remove themselves from the situation and have the appropriate authority handle it? That seems like the more mature thing to do to me.
      - whistlerbrk 13y ago
        Kids aren't mature. No, I don't advocate vigilantism. I advocate learning how to use the tools in your toolbox. If you have tried and failed to deal with something yourself, then you escalate. Same thing with everything. If you try and can't complete a math problem, you ask a peer for advice, then ask a teacher, etc.
        eschaton 13y ago
        So what do you suggest a victim do? How do you suggest a victim confront a bully? Ask them to please stop because it's not very nice, and maybe they're just not aware of it, and only once they escalate after that (and they will) go to an authority where it'll be treated as "not one-sided" due to that interaction?
    - eschaton 13y ago
      Your use of the term "tattle" makes it sound like perhaps you've done something someone didn't like in the past, and they reported it, and you had to deal with the consequences. If they'd just approached you directly everything would've been fine right? For you, at least.
  - kghose 13y ago
    It's curious to me that you think raising awareness is orthogonal to teaching people self respect.
  - actsasbuffoon 13y ago
    There are logical limits. I went to high school with a guy named Brad (name changed to protect his anonymity). Brad was walking home from work when he came across a couple of guys beating up one of his friends. He hopped in to save his friend and ended up killing one of the attackers. He's serving a life sentence in federal prison now. If he'd gone to the police then that boy would still be alive, and he'd be a free man. Framed in the context of run/fight it sounds like he did the courageous thing, but he also clearly did the wrong thing.
karmajunkie 13y ago
Said like a well-entrenched member of the machine... Bullying victims tend to be victims because they're unable to fight back. Bullies have power, whether it's physical, political, social, or otherwise, and they know it and hide behind it. Awareness campaigns seek to remove their power, and they are generally very effective. Bullies operate on the basis of isolating their victims, and bystanders that refuse to stand aside (physically, or by calling out the bully for what he or she is) prevent that isolation, giving the victim power of their own.
- yogo 13y ago
  You and the sibling comment are exactly why bullies continue to bully their victims. I'm not part of any machine, I don't bully anyone and I don't get bullied because I believe in mutual respect among human beings. If a bully is using their power to bully someone, my point is you still put up a fight. When you don't it empowers them even more. I'm not arguing because I'm pretty sure we'll never agree on this, but some people go through life without this problem and all I'll say is that it's often good to have a take no shit attitude about things.
  - eschaton 13y ago
    Stop blaming the victim. Victim-blaming puts the onus on the victim to prevent something that is neither their fault nor their responsibility. You don't get bullied because you haven't been singled out by a bully, not because you "exhibit mutual respect" or for anything else you do. Awareness — which is essentially getting people to admit bullying is possible in their environment — makes it easier for victims to come forward and leverage what structures are in place to end (not "fight") bullying. It makes it possible for victims to (1) be believed instead of dismissed, (2) not be treated as responsible for the bullying themselves, and (3) taken seriously as to the extent and damage of the bullying they experience. Even in the schoolyard situations you allude to, bullying isn't a matter of either "ignore them and they'll leave you alone" or "even if you don't win, once you fight they'll leave you alone for a softer target." Whether a bully gives up on a victim is entirely up to the bully and the power structure in the environment, not the victim. The philosophy you describe actually makes the power structure unavailable to the victim — which all but guarantees bullying continues.
jessaustin 13y ago
Even if your advice is sound for many bullied individuals in many situations (and I think it is), most organizations have an interest in minimizing bullying, or at least directing it so as to achieve organizational goals. You can be sure that bullies do not have the organization's goals in mind when they're doing their thing. If the bullying is institutionalized so as to make the average person stronger or more effective (as the military and many sports teams would argue) it might be defensible, but that doesn't happen by chance.
JamesLeonis 13y ago
I hope you don't mean physically fighting, because we adults can earn an assault charge real quick. Likewise, the bully wants the victim to respond over the top because it cements their power over them. Even the 8 year old in the playground is at a disadvantage. The mentality of the bully is to quietly dominate the weaker out of authority and regulatory sight. They want the victim to blow your top publicly, because all the trouble falls upon said victim. The alternative is reporting behavior problems to the proper authorities, which depends greatly on how serious they treat the problem. If they are lax or ineffective, then there isn't any recourse for the victim except to remove themselves from the entire organization or field. This becomes greatly compounded when the bully is in a position of power over the victim. Reporting the behavior might put the victim's job in jeopardy. Raising awareness of the problem allows other victims, and their allies, to realize they aren't alone in their struggle. It also allows organizations to evaluate their reporting mechanisms to see if they are effective in responding to intimidating behavior. Is awareness effective? Unfortunately not always. However we should encourage strong reporting mechanisms in our institutions to allow the victims some recourse.
- yogo 13y ago
  No, I mean fight in the generic sense. Whether it's a lawsuit, from a boss, etc. it's all really the same. Someone does something and they get away with it, and naturally that pattern continues (it's probably human nature at that point). The main reason for my "nip it in the bud" philosophy is because I fear that when it gets bad victims might react in an extreme way.
  - mandelbulb 13y ago
    Did you even read, let alone understand JamesLeonis' post? Bullying, by definition, arises from a powerful position onto a weaker victim. However, reversed situations exist as well. Power in this case doesn't have to be social power, like a higher job position or higher popularity. It can also be a more powerful personality e.g., due to better eloquence or more aggressive attitude. That is why in so many if not most case gaining your own allies who are aware of the issue is the only solution beside ignoring or fleeing.
- 13y ago
auctiontheory 13y ago
How do you suggest "fighting" someone who has absolute control over your career - as is often the case in academia?
altero 13y ago
Good luck with that! (seriously) Many times bullies are well protected and are practically untouchable. For example they could be from minority, and any sort of complain makes anyone automatically racist. To win over administration one has to become victim himself. For example it is generally acceptable to bully nerds. So one has to be diagnosed with mild autism or social anxiety, before he can even hope for any sympathy. So now the bullies are consuming even free time outside work/school and destroy remaining self a steam. And winning price is usually low, and does not even cover expenses and lost time. Bully may get short holiday, but usually returns to same position.
- acjohnson55 13y ago
  The best example of bullying you came up with is minorities bullying people?
  - altero 13y ago
    No. My example is when MEMBER of minority (or other protected group) bullies other people. In that case it is much harder to fight bully.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
barry-cotter 13y ago
The usual best response to bullying is the same as to sexual harassment; leave. You're not in school anymore, no one can force you to go back. You are not responsible to other people you don't know, at a cost to yourself.
- karmajunkie 13y ago
  I have to ask, do you ever look at what you've just typed before you hit "reply"?
  - barry-cotter 13y ago
    If you have a point, out with it, if not, why did you post that?
    - karmajunkie 13y ago
      My point was that you've managed to blame the victim TWICE in once sentence. Its not my responsibility to leave the environment when I'm being harassed; its the responsibility of the hierarchy of power to address the bully or harassers. Therefore leaving is only the "best" response if you are interested in protecting the ability of bullies and harassers to continue their behavior.

mrcactu5 13y ago

I have never seen the term bullying applied this way. It is everywhere people have been murmuring about this for years, but I have never seen anyone be outspoken about this outside of elementary or middle school. It is everywhere - it has altered peoples lives and careers. As an adult we are quietly doing these "microagressions" to each other constantly.

pmiller2 13y ago

This isn't news to anyone who's read the Chronicle of Education in the past 5 or 10 years, unfortunately. Academia is probably the perfect environment for this sort of thing to take place because you have people so entrenched they literally can't be fired for much short of gross incompetence or going to prison. Since the tenure process takes 6 years, waiting it out isn't exactly a solution. What tends to happen is that the bullied party moves on, and a lot of times, the next person to come in is bullied as well.

moron4hire 13y ago

One person's bullying in the workplace is another person's not putting up with excuses for substandard work.