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I see a marked increase in the use of the word 'privilege' and how it 'should be checked' - usually in reference to not being black/hispanic, female or gay. Wh

by omonra 13y ago

I see a marked increase in the use of the word 'privilege' and how it 'should be checked' - usually in reference to not being black/hispanic, female or gay. What exactly do you mean? Is it same as 'count your blessings' or shorthand for 'be aware that not everybody has it as sweet as you'?

rosser 13y ago
The latter. The world looks markedly different, and one has a radically different experience of it, if one wasn't fortunate enough to have won the "born the 'right' {sex, race, orientation, nationality, &c} lottery". Reminding yourself of that on a regular basis helps keep you sympathetic to folks who don't have it, as you say, "as sweet as you."
- omonra 13y ago
  Thank you, got it. In that case I just think it's a wrong choice of words. My understanding is that privilege is that few are born with (see this humorous commercial from the UK about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0hFnOGnq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0hFnOGnq4). This usage turns it on its head - uses the word privilege to describe what majority have but a minority do not. Ie I'd say being born the son of a billionaire is privilege - but having a dentist for a dad (even one who can pay for your college education) is not.
  - rosser 13y ago
    You'll have to take your quibble over word choice up with someone other than me; I'm just using the word that feminism and critical theory have chosen for the concept in the way they use it, because language and convention. Relative to the vast majority of people on the planet, however — probably even to the vast majority of people you come into contact with in daily life — even "merely" being the child of a dentist is most emphatically being privileged. If you go to university, knowing your education is paid for, and that you won't graduate facing the next couple decades of your life shackled to productive, gainful employment, because student loan debt is one that can't be discharged, then relative to nearly all of your classmates, you are incredibly privileged. "Privilege", as the term is used in critical theory, isn't an absolute state; it's a relative one.
    - omonra 13y ago
      Sure - I wasn't taking it up with you, just voicing my thoughts :) On the topic at hand - again, while it's a matter of personal choice - I think that growing up in a two parent household with caring parents who provide for their children is normal. Just like it's normal to be able-bodied as opposed to having some kind of physical or mental deficiency. We don't label healthy people 'privileged' - even though they probably constitute a minority of the population. I guess the difference is whether something can be reasonably expected (desired) for most of the population within one generation - assuming one puts in the work. So while someone from the bottom of society (heck, any part of society) can't expect to become a billionaire - they can attain middle-class status.
  - logical42 13y ago
    Try having a crippled mechanic for a father and maybe you'll reconsider whether having a dentist-dad is a privilege.
    - omonra 13y ago
      Yeah, and growing up in a foster home on an Indian reservation beats crippled mechanic dad (by the way when my family came to the US, going to McD for birthday was a big deal - the dentist dad was purely hypothetical :). I'm sure there are infinitely many scenarios of having suboptimal family circumstances. My point is that the baseline (two parent middle class family) is called normal.
      - rosser 13y ago
        My point is that the baseline (two parent middle class family) is called normal. Not from the perspective of the person who lives below the baseline, for whichever arbitrary baseline we happen to be talking about at the moment. A significant part of the entire point of critical theory is the attempt to understand the world from that person's perspective, in order to better seek the justice they deserve. That's why the choice of the word "privilege" is as relevant as it is here: because these discussions are almost always to be had — or attempted to be had, given the actual impossibility of "walking a mile in their moccasins" — from the perspective of the party to whom the thing in question is, in fact, a privilege — and more importantly, one that they don't enjoy. It's not about what's "normal"; it's about what's normal for the person for whose justice, or about whose injustice, we're talking. EDIT: Thank you, by the way, for allowing me the opportunity to sharpen my thoughts on these issues. It's something that's only recently become an item of interest and value to me, so being able to engage with someone in the manner we've been enjoying is immensely helpful for me.

by omonra 13y ago

rosser 13y ago

The latter. The world looks markedly different, and one has a radically different experience of it, if one wasn't fortunate enough to have won the "born the 'right' {sex, race, orientation, nationality, &c} lottery". Reminding yourself of that on a regular basis helps keep you sympathetic to folks who don't have it, as you say, "as sweet as you."

omonra 13y ago
Thank you, got it. In that case I just think it's a wrong choice of words. My understanding is that privilege is that few are born with (see this humorous commercial from the UK about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0hFnOGnq4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn0hFnOGnq4). This usage turns it on its head - uses the word privilege to describe what majority have but a minority do not. Ie I'd say being born the son of a billionaire is privilege - but having a dentist for a dad (even one who can pay for your college education) is not.
- rosser 13y ago
  You'll have to take your quibble over word choice up with someone other than me; I'm just using the word that feminism and critical theory have chosen for the concept in the way they use it, because language and convention. Relative to the vast majority of people on the planet, however — probably even to the vast majority of people you come into contact with in daily life — even "merely" being the child of a dentist is most emphatically being privileged. If you go to university, knowing your education is paid for, and that you won't graduate facing the next couple decades of your life shackled to productive, gainful employment, because student loan debt is one that can't be discharged, then relative to nearly all of your classmates, you are incredibly privileged. "Privilege", as the term is used in critical theory, isn't an absolute state; it's a relative one.
  - omonra 13y ago
    Sure - I wasn't taking it up with you, just voicing my thoughts :) On the topic at hand - again, while it's a matter of personal choice - I think that growing up in a two parent household with caring parents who provide for their children is normal. Just like it's normal to be able-bodied as opposed to having some kind of physical or mental deficiency. We don't label healthy people 'privileged' - even though they probably constitute a minority of the population. I guess the difference is whether something can be reasonably expected (desired) for most of the population within one generation - assuming one puts in the work. So while someone from the bottom of society (heck, any part of society) can't expect to become a billionaire - they can attain middle-class status.
- logical42 13y ago
  Try having a crippled mechanic for a father and maybe you'll reconsider whether having a dentist-dad is a privilege.
  - omonra 13y ago
    Yeah, and growing up in a foster home on an Indian reservation beats crippled mechanic dad (by the way when my family came to the US, going to McD for birthday was a big deal - the dentist dad was purely hypothetical :). I'm sure there are infinitely many scenarios of having suboptimal family circumstances. My point is that the baseline (two parent middle class family) is called normal.
    - rosser 13y ago
      My point is that the baseline (two parent middle class family) is called normal. Not from the perspective of the person who lives below the baseline, for whichever arbitrary baseline we happen to be talking about at the moment. A significant part of the entire point of critical theory is the attempt to understand the world from that person's perspective, in order to better seek the justice they deserve. That's why the choice of the word "privilege" is as relevant as it is here: because these discussions are almost always to be had — or attempted to be had, given the actual impossibility of "walking a mile in their moccasins" — from the perspective of the party to whom the thing in question is, in fact, a privilege — and more importantly, one that they don't enjoy. It's not about what's "normal"; it's about what's normal for the person for whose justice, or about whose injustice, we're talking. EDIT: Thank you, by the way, for allowing me the opportunity to sharpen my thoughts on these issues. It's something that's only recently become an item of interest and value to me, so being able to engage with someone in the manner we've been enjoying is immensely helpful for me.