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Do Amish children do that by choice? But you missed my point. How much do you know of North Korea? Are you under the impression their culture is the same as th

by Jach 13y ago

Do Amish children do that by choice? But you missed my point. How much do you know of North Korea? Are you under the impression their culture is the same as the South's? Do you think the spies live a primitive lifestyle? Do you think these athletes live a primitive lifestyle? http://www.funis2cool.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/north_korea_stadium_show_011.jpg http://www.funis2cool.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/north_k... How many people in Pyongyang do you think live a primitive lifestyle? And if they suddenly learned of the outside world (assuming they were completely ignorant beforehand!) they would probably notice the impoverished, the starving, the homeless, the unjustly imprisoned -- in other words, the same types of problems, if perhaps of different local magnitudes. They might also notice a bunch of problems they don't have. They may even just see some of their own problems as caused by the West and reinforce their distaste. My point is that it's ridiculous to suggest one's way of living will be instantly recognized as superior by someone else one assumed to have an inferior lifestyle. It's also ridiculous to imagine no one in North Korea actually believes in the legitimacy of the government and its goals.

Turing_Machine 13y ago
"Are you under the impression their culture is the same as the South's?" Korean culture is at least 2,000 years old, and yes, it's quite homogeneous. "They would probably notice the impoverished, the starving, the homeless, the unjustly imprisoned" What in the world are you talking about? Their entire country is an impoverished prison/slave-state, and it's estimated that 2-3 million North Korean people starved to death as recently as the 1990s. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd see the outside world as superior. Too bad they're not given the chance to make that decision for themselves, isn't it? A good rule of thumb on whether people actually want to live in a country: go to the border and check to see how many of the guns are pointed inward.
- classicsnoot 13y ago
  Age of the named culture notwithstanding, the cultures have become divergent in the last 40 years due to the Kim family as well as the extremist christian nationalists. You make these broad generalizations about a group of people we as "the world" know very little about. Many Jews in Ukraine were supportive of the Nazi invasion due to the awful treatment received from the Russians. Iraq was a complete wreck, and America still managed to have thousands of adversaries. There are many examples of people acting irrationally in the face of "the facts" of their situation. Your border comment is colorful but misleading. You act as if the guns are cemented pointing one direction.
  - moocowduckquack 13y ago
    Many Jews in Ukraine were supportive of the Nazi invasion I can't imagine that the honeymoon period lasted all that long, given what the Nazis did in the Ukraine. Are you a crazy person?
  - Turing_Machine 13y ago
    What "broad generalizations" would those be? That South Korea allows people to leave if they want, while North Korea doesn't? That millions of North Koreans have been starved to death or otherwise murdered by their own government? Sorry, those are facts, your attempts to change the subject notwithstanding.
    - classicsnoot 13y ago
      Good job sighting your sources. For you to just say, "i know a few Koreans" and "they are 2 thousand years old and therefore predictable" are the generalizations i mentioned. I am not arguing that NK is doing anything right. Far from it. I just happen to have some familiarity with the subject (my uncle is an adopted Korean refugee, i live in a place that is 30%+/- Korean, i can read more than a web page). It is an ugly problem, but it is the way it is now because of the US and China. Both the North and The South have had dictators and have caused unnecessary trouble to the other. As an American, i want to stay on the side of human rights and personal liberty. Through that lens, both governments are shit (...as well as US and most of Europe.)
      - Turing_Machine 13y ago
        "Good job sighting your sources." http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM Also: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Korean_peninsula_at_night.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Korean_peninsula_at_n... "Both the North and The South have had dictators and have caused unnecessary trouble to the other" The fact remains that South Koreans are allowed to leave the country, and North Koreans aren't, your attempts to spin some kind of bogus moral equivalence between "dictators" notwithstanding.
moocowduckquack 13y ago
Do Amish children do that by choice? Amish children aren't Amish. You have to choose to be Amish as an adult, they are exceedingly strict about that. edit - If the Amish did mysteriously find themselves in charge of North Korea all of a sudden, by the rules of the Amish within about a year or so, depending on the harvest, there would be a very small Amish state in the middle of a brand new country that would rather confusingly now be called England.
Natsu 13y ago
> Do Amish children do that by choice? Yes, actually. During Rumspringa, they choose whether they want to be members.
- Luc 13y ago
  What a nice of keeping the community stable and getting rid of the children on whom the brainwashing didn't take.
  - ars 13y ago
    Presumably you are happy with the brainwashing you received? Or did you think your current culture is somehow special and the best one ever? It's utterly disgusting how people call everyone else's culture except their own "brainwashing". Religious? Brainwashed. Atheist? Brainwashed. Likes sports? Brainwashed. The only time you can legitimately call "brainwashing" is in a culture where there is one "master" person, and everyone else is utterly obedient to them.
    - Luc 13y ago
      It's not brainwashing, that's true. Not for any of the reasons you mention though - I think I'll stick with the generally accepted definition rather than yours - but rather because children are an unwritten page. To wilfully distort their view on reality deserves a pejorative term, in any case. I guess it's being done by adults who are victims of the same process themselves.
      - ars 13y ago
        > To wilfully distort their view on reality And what exactly makes you think that your view on reality is the super best most correct and perfect one? From their point of view you are the one with a distorted view on reality and perhaps your children should be taken from you before you warp them. Do you really not see this? Or are you so stuck in your viewpoint that it's utterly impossible for you to imagine anyone having a different viewpoint?

by Jach 13y ago

Turing_Machine 13y ago

"Are you under the impression their culture is the same as the South's?" Korean culture is at least 2,000 years old, and yes, it's quite homogeneous. "They would probably notice the impoverished, the starving, the homeless, the unjustly imprisoned" What in the world are you talking about? Their entire country is an impoverished prison/slave-state, and it's estimated that 2-3 million North Korean people starved to death as recently as the 1990s. So, yeah, I'm pretty sure they'd see the outside world as superior. Too bad they're not given the chance to make that decision for themselves, isn't it? A good rule of thumb on whether people actually want to live in a country: go to the border and check to see how many of the guns are pointed inward.

classicsnoot 13y ago
Age of the named culture notwithstanding, the cultures have become divergent in the last 40 years due to the Kim family as well as the extremist christian nationalists. You make these broad generalizations about a group of people we as "the world" know very little about. Many Jews in Ukraine were supportive of the Nazi invasion due to the awful treatment received from the Russians. Iraq was a complete wreck, and America still managed to have thousands of adversaries. There are many examples of people acting irrationally in the face of "the facts" of their situation. Your border comment is colorful but misleading. You act as if the guns are cemented pointing one direction.
- moocowduckquack 13y ago
  Many Jews in Ukraine were supportive of the Nazi invasion I can't imagine that the honeymoon period lasted all that long, given what the Nazis did in the Ukraine. Are you a crazy person?
- Turing_Machine 13y ago
  What "broad generalizations" would those be? That South Korea allows people to leave if they want, while North Korea doesn't? That millions of North Koreans have been starved to death or otherwise murdered by their own government? Sorry, those are facts, your attempts to change the subject notwithstanding.
  - classicsnoot 13y ago
    Good job sighting your sources. For you to just say, "i know a few Koreans" and "they are 2 thousand years old and therefore predictable" are the generalizations i mentioned. I am not arguing that NK is doing anything right. Far from it. I just happen to have some familiarity with the subject (my uncle is an adopted Korean refugee, i live in a place that is 30%+/- Korean, i can read more than a web page). It is an ugly problem, but it is the way it is now because of the US and China. Both the North and The South have had dictators and have caused unnecessary trouble to the other. As an American, i want to stay on the side of human rights and personal liberty. Through that lens, both governments are shit (...as well as US and most of Europe.)
    - Turing_Machine 13y ago
      "Good job sighting your sources." http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM Also: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Korean_peninsula_at_night.jpg http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Korean_peninsula_at_n... "Both the North and The South have had dictators and have caused unnecessary trouble to the other" The fact remains that South Koreans are allowed to leave the country, and North Koreans aren't, your attempts to spin some kind of bogus moral equivalence between "dictators" notwithstanding.

moocowduckquack 13y ago

Do Amish children do that by choice? Amish children aren't Amish. You have to choose to be Amish as an adult, they are exceedingly strict about that. edit - If the Amish did mysteriously find themselves in charge of North Korea all of a sudden, by the rules of the Amish within about a year or so, depending on the harvest, there would be a very small Amish state in the middle of a brand new country that would rather confusingly now be called England.

Natsu 13y ago

> Do Amish children do that by choice? Yes, actually. During Rumspringa, they choose whether they want to be members.

Luc 13y ago
What a nice of keeping the community stable and getting rid of the children on whom the brainwashing didn't take.
- ars 13y ago
  Presumably you are happy with the brainwashing you received? Or did you think your current culture is somehow special and the best one ever? It's utterly disgusting how people call everyone else's culture except their own "brainwashing". Religious? Brainwashed. Atheist? Brainwashed. Likes sports? Brainwashed. The only time you can legitimately call "brainwashing" is in a culture where there is one "master" person, and everyone else is utterly obedient to them.
  - Luc 13y ago
    It's not brainwashing, that's true. Not for any of the reasons you mention though - I think I'll stick with the generally accepted definition rather than yours - but rather because children are an unwritten page. To wilfully distort their view on reality deserves a pejorative term, in any case. I guess it's being done by adults who are victims of the same process themselves.
    - ars 13y ago
      > To wilfully distort their view on reality And what exactly makes you think that your view on reality is the super best most correct and perfect one? From their point of view you are the one with a distorted view on reality and perhaps your children should be taken from you before you warp them. Do you really not see this? Or are you so stuck in your viewpoint that it's utterly impossible for you to imagine anyone having a different viewpoint?