7 ms·

Except Nortel did use many of those patents. They decided to sell it to Rockstar, full of owners who are likely licensing the patents to themselves for use in t

Except Nortel did use many of those patents. They decided to sell it to Rockstar, full of owners who are likely licensing the patents to themselves for use in their products. Yes, technically Rockster is an individual company that doesn't make/sell any products but it's not a troll just because of that. It's a troll if the owners didn't use it in their products. By this logic, any standard bodies would be trolls as well if they decide to sue any companies that infringe without paying the fees.

Caligula 13y ago
I worked at Nortel. Selling the patents provided important money to the fucked over Nortel pensioners. These patents were used for real work, cost massive resources to fund, and Google could have outbid Apple.
pg 13y ago
Lots of the patents now used by patent trolls were originally granted to companies that meant to use them to protect things they built. What matters here is not Nortel, but Rockstar. And Rockstar frankly seems to me to be worse than ordinary patent trolls. Ordinary patent trolls are just running protection rackets. Rockstar was created not to make money but to suppress competition.
- throwawaykf03 13y ago
  Posted this link [1] in another comment, but apparently Nortel was in licensing negotiations for years before Rockstar was formed, and its CEO claims the current owners had no say in filing these lawsuits. 1. http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc-4977-9fa7-9f885d95ff91 http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc...
  - pyre 13y ago
    > current owners had no say in filing these lawsuits. They didn't give an order, but they created a company whose sole purpose is to file these types of lawsuits. Did they really think that it would never happen? It would be like the Manhattan Project scientists washing their hands of Nagasaki and Hiroshima because Truman was the one that gave the order.
- mikhailt 13y ago
  Google was offered a seat in Rockstar, they also placed a bid, and so on. They didn't want to. What exactly do you expect Rockstar to do when several Android OEMs are infringing on their patents without paying for it?
  - AnthonyMouse 13y ago
    > Google was offered a seat in Rockstar, they also placed a bid, and so on. They didn't want to. Of course they didn't want to. Why would they want to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to buy a bunch of patents they couldn't actually use against any of their main competitors? All it would have bought them is a hole in their pockets (because who would have bought the patents from them if the entire industry had already been immunized to them?), and Apple and Microsoft would then have just bought a different set of patents to sell to trolls expecting for them to be used against Google. Buying overly broad patents is paying the Danegeld. Once they know you pay the Danegeld you never get rid of the Dane.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - magicalist 13y ago
    > Google was offered a seat in Rockstar, they also placed a bid, and so on. They didn't want to. This is not correct. You're thinking of the Novell patents. Google did make a bid on the Nortel patents, but was not offered a place within Rockstar. > What exactly do you expect Rockstar to do when several Android OEMs are infringing on their patents without paying for it? This has zero relevance to a claim of them being a patent troll, as a troll can ask the exact same question (and usually does).
    - _Simon 13y ago
      > This is not correct. You're thinking of the Novell patents. Google did make a bid on the Nortel patents, but was not offered a place within Rockstar. This is not correct. See http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/google-had-opportunity-join-group-won-nortels-6000-patents http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/google-had-opport...
- paul9290 13y ago
  " Rockstar was created not to make money but to suppress competition." Is that not the point of patents? Suppress copycats and or extract monies for their copying/profiting from your novel works?
  - pg 13y ago
    The purpose of patents is to suppress competition for one's own products. These patents don't protect any novel aspect of Apple's or Microsoft's products. By definition, if they're valid.
    - throwawaykf03 13y ago
      (Nitpick, but the purpose of patents is a lot more open ended than that -- "promote progress of useful arts etc." -- suppressing competition is just one of the means to that end.) But what makes you say these patents don't cover aspects of Apple's and Microsoft's and the other shareholders' products? The patents involved in the Rockstar lawsuits cover networking, touch-screens and search. The shareholders make products which obviously infringed on these patents to varying extents, and that is why they paid billions for them. Considering they've paid all that money to secure a "freedom to operate", so to speak, is it fair to them that everyone else gets to infringe with impunity?
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - paul9290 13y ago
      As a little guy with a patent (team & I created a new & superior wireless audio technology - superior to BlueTooth Audio, Apple's Airplay & others) I'm with you! We'd love to connect with some friendly people out west to help us, but not sure how to make that happen? It's not like we haven't tried - we spent a good deal of our savings to demo out in the Valley this past year. Since we work full time jobs and are in our late 30s it seems harder then ever to find partners/those who can help. Though we will continue to work hard and further innovate with the goal/hopes in mind of finding help and or after a long road/fight be rewarded for our work.
- _Simon 13y ago
  Bullshit. Google were offered a place at the table.

Caligula 13y ago

I worked at Nortel. Selling the patents provided important money to the fucked over Nortel pensioners. These patents were used for real work, cost massive resources to fund, and Google could have outbid Apple.

pg 13y ago

Lots of the patents now used by patent trolls were originally granted to companies that meant to use them to protect things they built. What matters here is not Nortel, but Rockstar. And Rockstar frankly seems to me to be worse than ordinary patent trolls. Ordinary patent trolls are just running protection rackets. Rockstar was created not to make money but to suppress competition.

throwawaykf03 13y ago
Posted this link [1] in another comment, but apparently Nortel was in licensing negotiations for years before Rockstar was formed, and its CEO claims the current owners had no say in filing these lawsuits. 1. http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc-4977-9fa7-9f885d95ff91 http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc...
- pyre 13y ago
  > current owners had no say in filing these lawsuits. They didn't give an order, but they created a company whose sole purpose is to file these types of lawsuits. Did they really think that it would never happen? It would be like the Manhattan Project scientists washing their hands of Nagasaki and Hiroshima because Truman was the one that gave the order.
mikhailt 13y ago
Google was offered a seat in Rockstar, they also placed a bid, and so on. They didn't want to. What exactly do you expect Rockstar to do when several Android OEMs are infringing on their patents without paying for it?
- AnthonyMouse 13y ago
  > Google was offered a seat in Rockstar, they also placed a bid, and so on. They didn't want to. Of course they didn't want to. Why would they want to pay hundreds of millions of dollars to buy a bunch of patents they couldn't actually use against any of their main competitors? All it would have bought them is a hole in their pockets (because who would have bought the patents from them if the entire industry had already been immunized to them?), and Apple and Microsoft would then have just bought a different set of patents to sell to trolls expecting for them to be used against Google. Buying overly broad patents is paying the Danegeld. Once they know you pay the Danegeld you never get rid of the Dane.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- magicalist 13y ago
  > Google was offered a seat in Rockstar, they also placed a bid, and so on. They didn't want to. This is not correct. You're thinking of the Novell patents. Google did make a bid on the Nortel patents, but was not offered a place within Rockstar. > What exactly do you expect Rockstar to do when several Android OEMs are infringing on their patents without paying for it? This has zero relevance to a claim of them being a patent troll, as a troll can ask the exact same question (and usually does).
  - _Simon 13y ago
    > This is not correct. You're thinking of the Novell patents. Google did make a bid on the Nortel patents, but was not offered a place within Rockstar. This is not correct. See http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/google-had-opportunity-join-group-won-nortels-6000-patents http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/google-had-opport...
paul9290 13y ago
" Rockstar was created not to make money but to suppress competition." Is that not the point of patents? Suppress copycats and or extract monies for their copying/profiting from your novel works?
- pg 13y ago
  The purpose of patents is to suppress competition for one's own products. These patents don't protect any novel aspect of Apple's or Microsoft's products. By definition, if they're valid.
  - throwawaykf03 13y ago
    (Nitpick, but the purpose of patents is a lot more open ended than that -- "promote progress of useful arts etc." -- suppressing competition is just one of the means to that end.) But what makes you say these patents don't cover aspects of Apple's and Microsoft's and the other shareholders' products? The patents involved in the Rockstar lawsuits cover networking, touch-screens and search. The shareholders make products which obviously infringed on these patents to varying extents, and that is why they paid billions for them. Considering they've paid all that money to secure a "freedom to operate", so to speak, is it fair to them that everyone else gets to infringe with impunity?
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - paul9290 13y ago
    As a little guy with a patent (team & I created a new & superior wireless audio technology - superior to BlueTooth Audio, Apple's Airplay & others) I'm with you! We'd love to connect with some friendly people out west to help us, but not sure how to make that happen? It's not like we haven't tried - we spent a good deal of our savings to demo out in the Valley this past year. Since we work full time jobs and are in our late 30s it seems harder then ever to find partners/those who can help. Though we will continue to work hard and further innovate with the goal/hopes in mind of finding help and or after a long road/fight be rewarded for our work.
_Simon 13y ago
Bullshit. Google were offered a place at the table.