7 ms·

Google sues to protect Android device makers from Apple-backed patent hell

125 points by kirtijthorat 13y ago

kirtijthorat 13y ago
Meanwhile, in response to abuse of the patent system by so-called “trolls,” the House of Representatives has passed a bill called the Innovation Act (details: http://www.gop.gov/bill/113/1/hr3309 http://www.gop.gov/bill/113/1/hr3309) to fix the worst abuses. The bill is expected to pass the Senate and be signed into law next year. Significantly improving patent quality is no easy task and would likely require fundamental changes to patent law, to the PTO, and to procedures for examining patent applications. New rules to reduce “smash-and-grab” patent trolling is VERY IMPORTANT and hope our Govt. acts on this bill asap.
- sigzero 13y ago
  I don't think that would help in this case since this isn't a patent "troll" but a conglomeration of companies.
  - kirtijthorat 13y ago
    You're absolutely correct but I just wanted to bring that topic just for the general awareness on the "patent troll" subject. Also, I found the following information on "conglomeration of companies" : In 2011, a group of technology companies that included Apple, Microsoft, Sony, and BlackBerry banded together to outbid Google on a bundle of patents from Nortel Networks. This cadre was victorious, paying $4.5 billion for around 4,000 patents, which Google couldn’t match. Now the group, which calls itself the Rockstar Consortium, is reportedly looking to offload some of those patents.
k-mcgrady 13y ago
Didn't think it possible but this sensationalist headline is topped by the image of a mushroom cloud at the top of the article.
- cryptoz 13y ago
  That's probably a reference to Steve Jobs declaring "thermonuclear war" on Android - the sensationalism is from Apple, not the article's writers/editors.
  - benliong256 13y ago
    Really? You're asserting that there's no sensationalism on the part of writers / editors whatsoever by choosing that headline and that image? Seriously? I don't agree with what Jobs said, and he's obviously saying that out of personal hurt. But saying that this article isn't sensationalism, especially when the headline says it's Apple backed and not mention anything about a group of companies banding together ... you and I have very different interpretation on sensationalism.
    - beedogs 13y ago
      There's a difference between hyperbole and sensationalism. And this is a blog, for fuck's sake. They can use whatever tone they want. The people wasting time complaining about "sensationalism" should go back to Reddit, where you get more fake Internet points for it.
    - alan_cx 13y ago
      Its an obvious reference to Job's comment. Therefor its not sensationalist, hyperbole, or what ever, to use the image with this type of story. Job's comments may well be, but that isn't the article's author's problem.
jdechko 13y ago
I'm definitely splitting hairs here, but I think there's a distinction to be made between a non-practicing entity (patent troll) and a consortium of companies that pooled together to purchase patents. Rockstar may not make devices itself, but it consists of, and represents, companies that do. Just saying.
- kelnos 13y ago
  Perhaps, but I find the end result to be just as vile: a conglomeration of companies banding together to bully a weaker[1] rival. That sounds like anti-competitive behavior to me. [1] Weaker in relation to the combined power of the conglomeration, anyway.
  - jdechko 13y ago
    Not that it makes it right, but does anyone think that Google wouldn't have used these patents offensively against the Rockstar companies if they had ended up with them?
    - kodablah 13y ago
      Yes, I believe that. Based on their past statements and actions I don't believe they would use them offensively. Do you believe they couldn't use the Motorola patent portfolio against those companies if they wanted to?
      - _Simon 13y ago
        Those past actions would be backing Motorola's abuse of FRAND patents to 'pre-emptively' attack competitors?
        _Simon 13y ago
        Am I wrong?
      - bluekitten 13y ago
mikhailt 13y ago
Except Nortel did use many of those patents. They decided to sell it to Rockstar, full of owners who are likely licensing the patents to themselves for use in their products. Yes, technically Rockster is an individual company that doesn't make/sell any products but it's not a troll just because of that. It's a troll if the owners didn't use it in their products. By this logic, any standard bodies would be trolls as well if they decide to sue any companies that infringe without paying the fees.
- Caligula 13y ago
  I worked at Nortel. Selling the patents provided important money to the fucked over Nortel pensioners. These patents were used for real work, cost massive resources to fund, and Google could have outbid Apple.
- pg 13y ago
  Lots of the patents now used by patent trolls were originally granted to companies that meant to use them to protect things they built. What matters here is not Nortel, but Rockstar. And Rockstar frankly seems to me to be worse than ordinary patent trolls. Ordinary patent trolls are just running protection rackets. Rockstar was created not to make money but to suppress competition.
  - throwawaykf03 13y ago
    Posted this link [1] in another comment, but apparently Nortel was in licensing negotiations for years before Rockstar was formed, and its CEO claims the current owners had no say in filing these lawsuits. 1. http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc-4977-9fa7-9f885d95ff91 http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc...
    - pyre 13y ago
      > current owners had no say in filing these lawsuits. They didn't give an order, but they created a company whose sole purpose is to file these types of lawsuits. Did they really think that it would never happen? It would be like the Manhattan Project scientists washing their hands of Nagasaki and Hiroshima because Truman was the one that gave the order.
namespace 13y ago
Interesting times. There is no doubt that the legal punches thrown at Android have been anti-competitive and kills innovation instead of what there were meant to protect. For example reportedly Microsoft earns more from Android than selling Windows phone: http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-is-making-2bn-a-year-on-android-licensing-five-times-more-than-windows-phone-7000022936/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-is-making-2bn-a-year-on-andro.... If the patents were that useful for innovation, Microsoft would have been ahead of Google by miles.
- X-Istence 13y ago
  Except that Microsoft innovated, got there first and clearly has something valuable if other companies are using it's IP (self evident since companies are paying them licensing fees).
  - codygman 13y ago
    The reason for paying licensing fees doesn't have to be that Micro$oft has something valuable, it could very well be they are afraid of legal repercussions.
    - clarky07 13y ago
      If they weren't infringing, the companies wouldn't be paying. It's not like we are talking about some mom and pop that is going to go out of business from legal fees. We are talking major handset manufacturers.
      - AnthonyMouse 13y ago
        It's not about going out of business, it's about cost/benefit. What good does it do you to avoid paying a million dollars in license fees if it costs you two million dollars in lawyers fees to do it? (The answer is that it keeps you from being painted as a mark by other trolls. But it still doesn't change the math -- it costs more to fight than to pay.)
  - 13y ago
millerm 13y ago
Seriously, a horribly biased "article". I don't prefer this style of journalism.
twentysix 13y ago
Slightly offtopic, but Article One recently launched a crowd-funding project[1] aimed at helping start ups affected by actual patent trolls. According to the project page, "Our goal is to launch and maintain a completely free, data-rich, up-to-date, member-supported database that small companies can use to help defend against patent trolls." They are starting with a patent owned by Treehouse Avatar Technologies regarding gaming avatars. Treehouse has been targeting indie game developers using US 8180858[2]. Eventually, they plan to build a prior art database targeting the most abused patents and provide small start-ups with free access. [1] http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/operation-ninja-s-t-a-r-help-fight-patent-trolls http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/operation-ninja-s-t-a-r-he... [2] http://google.com/patents/US8180858 http://google.com/patents/US8180858
deleted 13y ago
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bananacurve 13y ago
>Today, Rockstar employs once-proud Canadian engineers to work as high-tech ring-wraiths in service of its American trolling operation. At least they didn't oversell it.
throwawaykf03 13y ago
Saying "Apple-backed" (or "Apple and Microsoft owned" as past articles have) insinuate that those companies are pulling the strings, which is not necessarily true. Straight from the horse's mouth [1]: Given the amount they paid and given the on-going issues at least some of them have with both Google and the Android platform, many reports have talked about the consortium going on the attack or have assumed that it is the shareholders that have driven things. This is categorically not the case, Veschi says. “It was entirely my call based on the facts in front of me,” he states. “The shareholders got an email telling them what had happened after the suits were issued.” You might not believe him, but it's not necessarily that unbelievable. For instance, Intellectual Ventures is, in a way, "Google-backed", since Google invested in one of their "funds" (or whatever they call it). Yet IV turned around and sued Motorola two years after Google acquired it. 1. http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc-4977-9fa7-9f885d95ff91 http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc...
- kkowalczyk 13y ago
  We don't need to insinuate anything. It's clear that both Microsoft and Apple are pulling the strings. They didn't collectively spend $4.5 billion to just have Rockstar do whatever they want. (Not that creating a patent troll under any scenario is morally defensible for Microsoft or Apple). The shell games provide them plausible deniability only to naive. They sued Android. Android is a big threat to both Microsoft and Apple. Coincidence? I don't think so.
  - throwawaykf03 13y ago
    In case you didn't read the article I linked, the CEO of Rockstar created these licensing programs while they were still Nortel-owned and has been in negotiations for years before Rockstar was formed. This was a long time coming and all the potential infringers knew it, which was why the auction was in the billions of dollars. They sued Android. Android is a big threat to both Microsoft and Apple. Rockstar sued some Android phone makers because it infringes their patents and they don't have a license. Note that they didn't sue Sony, who makes Android phones, because Sony, being part of the consortium, has paid for those patents.
deleted 13y ago
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sethbannon 13y ago
Sadly I'm becoming more and more convinced that the only solution to the broken way patents work in this country is for things to get so bad, and these troll lawsuits to get so egregious, that Congress is forced to act and overhall the entire system.
- allochthon 13y ago
  Rockstar in my mind is symbolic of everything wrong in the tech industry these days. I love Apple products, but I love Apple just a little less for getting its hands dirty in this. Obviously there are other companies as well, but I'm not as attached to them. If this ends up speeding up patent reform, I guess it's worth the bitter pill. I'm tempted to switch to Android the next time I get a phone.
  - psbp 13y ago
    This is the case that gets you pissed off at Apple's use of patent litigation?
    - alextingle 13y ago
      Even the most devoted fans must have their breaking points.
  - guelo 13y ago
    Totally off topic but you just triggered a mini rant in me. Apple products are awful. Just today I was cursing Apple over the ridiculous "lightning" connector scandal. It's incomprehensible to me how Apple users keep taking the abuse to the point that they blame themselves for Apple's shenanigans. It's some kind of stockholm syndrome.
    - jpttsn 13y ago
      I'll bite. What's wrong with the connector?
      - 13y ago
liviu 13y ago
Google is now crying like a little kid after they tried unsuccessfully to buy Nortel patents... Pathetic.
beedogs 13y ago
Wow, the guy in the comments section of the article just nonstop trolling for Rockstar/Apple is unbelievable.
andy_ppp 13y ago
Simple solution, the law should be: A) only companies using patents directly can sue B) the maximum damages that can be awarded are 2x revenue related to the patents This means that companies actually using patents and making a business out of them can benefit and stops patent trolls. Am I crazy?
- rednukleus 13y ago
  What about patents that come out of universities? How do you determine the "revenue related to the patents"?
  - salient 13y ago
    Universities have patents for the purpose of selling them, no? If a company is making something and wants to use it, then they buy the patent. No different from today in that case. The only difference is that trolls can't buy the same patents in order to sue others, like IV, Rockstar, and others are doing.
  - andy_ppp 13y ago
    When has a university ever sued someone? Patents generally end up being bought by companies using them... Unless shenanigans are at play.
    - maxerickson 13y ago
      http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2009/10/university_of_wisconsin_settle.html http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2009/10/univers... (My impression is that UW is fairly extreme in this regard)
    - eatfish 13y ago
      Here's the first result from Google: http://www.cmu.edu/patent-lawsuit/ http://www.cmu.edu/patent-lawsuit/ CMU vs Marvell. Here's an article from Stanford law school: 'Are universities the new patent trolls?' http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=980776 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=980776 Universities often (and unfairly IMHO) claim rights on graduate research precisely to monetize and act as patent gatekeepers.
sbuk 13y ago
Title is misleading. Rockstar isn't backed by a single entity. It's flame bait and many of you have taken it. Merry Christmas.
throwawaykf03 13y ago
If the Rockstar shareholders can be shown to have direct control over this, the DoJ and FTC may get involved. From this interview/fluff piece: http://www.ip-rockstar.com/Press_Releases/IAM%20Rockstar%20Article%20JulyAugust%202013.pdf http://www.ip-rockstar.com/Press_Releases/IAM%20Rockstar%20A... Commitments to the DoJ The sale of the Nortel patents closed on 29th July 2011, which also happens to be Veschi’s birthday. But it took another few months – until Spring 2012 – for the acquisition to receive clearance from the US Department of Justice (DoJ). Although this approval may have taken some time to obtain, the only commitment that Rockstar itself gave to the DoJ (and the Federal Trade Commission) was that it would operate autonomously. This, explains Veschi, was so that the shareholders “as operating companies cannot pick and choose who we will target”
DanBC 13y ago
Mangalyaan cost about $90m. How many robots could we have exploring the solar system if companies weren't throwing money into stupid patents? Like the Banana Equivalent Dose to explain regular radiation we need some easy to grasp comparison to explain just how much money is being wasted in this stupid system.
belgianguy 13y ago
Patent reform is highly needed or patents risk to become nothing more than minefields that already established players will use to stall - and ultimately defeat - newcomers and innovation in general, rather than dissemination of information and furthering of the sciences. Software projects (especially Open Source) projects that get popular don't stand a chance against these trolls. Don't think this is just something we need to read about. Action is required. At the moment Google/Android are being attacked by Rockstar Bidco, the Patent Troll King. It owns >6000 (ex-Nortel) patents, which (Microsoft, Apple, Sony, RIM and Ericsson bought jointly) they all stuffed into the Rockstar Bidco company that has no other function than suing possible 'infringers'. Given the vagueness and fondness of the USPTO to 'create intellectual property', this could be the perfect patent storm and Rockstar's boss said it himself: 'Pretty much anybody out there is infringing'. Meaning that whatever gets into the crosshairs of Rockstar, is on the hook for possibly millions of dollars. Who can defeat a titanic patent Frankenstein as big as Rockstar Bidco? It cannot be sued because it produces nothing (aka an Non Practicing Entity). But it has enormous wealthy backers, so it can sue everyone for everything and just sit it out. In fact, its owners all hold patents on the mobile industry, so the 'urgency' and 'usefulness' of Rockstar could be questioned, outside of being a 'bigger stick to hit Android with'. Google or the Android manufacturers have no option but to face the lawsuits. Google will have a hard time fighting them off, but I don't see the Android manufacturers survive in one piece. And that's exactly the idea: eradicate Android, make all software development that isn't owned (or graced) by the Rockstar owners a sticky patent mess, leading to a small set of 'friends of Rockstar' who can afford to develop software in peace. That's not only bad for Android or Google, that's a bad sign for software development in general. Because what if Rockstar Bidco all of the sudden 'feels' that the SteamBox could threaten the Xbox/Playstation duopoly? What if Rockstar Bidco thinks that Ubuntu Phone OS is something that is in infringing on their phone software patents? Who will stand up for them? Of course Rockstar Bidco claims that they are independent, but that was only believed by fools when they formed and only idiots believe it now after the other shoe has dropped (Apple, RIM and Microsoft all attacking Google/Android). And to the supporters of Rockstar, just to be clear: Google was only invited for a jointly bid on the Novell patents, never on the Nortel patents. As per the legal counsel of Google: Microsoft’s objective has been to keep from Google and Android device-makers any patents that might be used to defend against their attacks. A joint acquisition of the Novell patents that gave all parties a license would have eliminated any protection these patents could offer to Android against attacks from Microsoft and its bidding partners. Making sure that we would be unable to assert these patents to defend Android — and having us pay for the privilege — must have seemed like an ingenious strategy to them. In short: Microsoft told them it was going to shoot their dog but offered them to hold the gun when they did it. The fact that so many frivolous software patents exist is bad enough, the fact that 5 of the biggest tech companies conspired to create the ultimate patent troll is outright disgusting. Hate Android/Google all you like, but such constructions aren't healthy for a competitive market, they'll just swallow more and more patents, and attack more and more companies, until nobody bothers because of relentless lawsuits as soon as something somewhat popular is produced. No developer will sleep easy at night when this becomes the default, as an NPE is like a ghost, not subject to the same attacks as a regular business, which makes it so much harder to defeat. If software can only be developed by the graces or whims of companies like Rockstar Bidco, the software industry will bleed to death in an instant.

125 points by kirtijthorat 13y ago

Meanwhile, in response to abuse of the patent system by so-called “trolls,” the House of Representatives has passed a bill called the Innovation Act (details: http://www.gop.gov/bill/113/1/hr3309 http://www.gop.gov/bill/113/1/hr3309) to fix the worst abuses. The bill is expected to pass the Senate and be signed into law next year. Significantly improving patent quality is no easy task and would likely require fundamental changes to patent law, to the PTO, and to procedures for examining patent applications. New rules to reduce “smash-and-grab” patent trolling is VERY IMPORTANT and hope our Govt. acts on this bill asap.

sigzero 13y ago
I don't think that would help in this case since this isn't a patent "troll" but a conglomeration of companies.
- kirtijthorat 13y ago
  You're absolutely correct but I just wanted to bring that topic just for the general awareness on the "patent troll" subject. Also, I found the following information on "conglomeration of companies" : In 2011, a group of technology companies that included Apple, Microsoft, Sony, and BlackBerry banded together to outbid Google on a bundle of patents from Nortel Networks. This cadre was victorious, paying $4.5 billion for around 4,000 patents, which Google couldn’t match. Now the group, which calls itself the Rockstar Consortium, is reportedly looking to offload some of those patents.

k-mcgrady 13y ago

Didn't think it possible but this sensationalist headline is topped by the image of a mushroom cloud at the top of the article.

cryptoz 13y ago
That's probably a reference to Steve Jobs declaring "thermonuclear war" on Android - the sensationalism is from Apple, not the article's writers/editors.
- benliong256 13y ago
  Really? You're asserting that there's no sensationalism on the part of writers / editors whatsoever by choosing that headline and that image? Seriously? I don't agree with what Jobs said, and he's obviously saying that out of personal hurt. But saying that this article isn't sensationalism, especially when the headline says it's Apple backed and not mention anything about a group of companies banding together ... you and I have very different interpretation on sensationalism.
  - beedogs 13y ago
    There's a difference between hyperbole and sensationalism. And this is a blog, for fuck's sake. They can use whatever tone they want. The people wasting time complaining about "sensationalism" should go back to Reddit, where you get more fake Internet points for it.
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    Its an obvious reference to Job's comment. Therefor its not sensationalist, hyperbole, or what ever, to use the image with this type of story. Job's comments may well be, but that isn't the article's author's problem.

jdechko 13y ago

I'm definitely splitting hairs here, but I think there's a distinction to be made between a non-practicing entity (patent troll) and a consortium of companies that pooled together to purchase patents. Rockstar may not make devices itself, but it consists of, and represents, companies that do. Just saying.

kelnos 13y ago
Perhaps, but I find the end result to be just as vile: a conglomeration of companies banding together to bully a weaker[1] rival. That sounds like anti-competitive behavior to me. [1] Weaker in relation to the combined power of the conglomeration, anyway.
- jdechko 13y ago
  Not that it makes it right, but does anyone think that Google wouldn't have used these patents offensively against the Rockstar companies if they had ended up with them?
  - kodablah 13y ago
    Yes, I believe that. Based on their past statements and actions I don't believe they would use them offensively. Do you believe they couldn't use the Motorola patent portfolio against those companies if they wanted to?
    - _Simon 13y ago
      Those past actions would be backing Motorola's abuse of FRAND patents to 'pre-emptively' attack competitors?
      - _Simon 13y ago
        Am I wrong?
    - bluekitten 13y ago

mikhailt 13y ago

Except Nortel did use many of those patents. They decided to sell it to Rockstar, full of owners who are likely licensing the patents to themselves for use in their products. Yes, technically Rockster is an individual company that doesn't make/sell any products but it's not a troll just because of that. It's a troll if the owners didn't use it in their products. By this logic, any standard bodies would be trolls as well if they decide to sue any companies that infringe without paying the fees.

Caligula 13y ago
I worked at Nortel. Selling the patents provided important money to the fucked over Nortel pensioners. These patents were used for real work, cost massive resources to fund, and Google could have outbid Apple.
pg 13y ago
Lots of the patents now used by patent trolls were originally granted to companies that meant to use them to protect things they built. What matters here is not Nortel, but Rockstar. And Rockstar frankly seems to me to be worse than ordinary patent trolls. Ordinary patent trolls are just running protection rackets. Rockstar was created not to make money but to suppress competition.
- throwawaykf03 13y ago
  Posted this link [1] in another comment, but apparently Nortel was in licensing negotiations for years before Rockstar was formed, and its CEO claims the current owners had no say in filing these lawsuits. 1. http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc-4977-9fa7-9f885d95ff91 http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc...
  - pyre 13y ago
    > current owners had no say in filing these lawsuits. They didn't give an order, but they created a company whose sole purpose is to file these types of lawsuits. Did they really think that it would never happen? It would be like the Manhattan Project scientists washing their hands of Nagasaki and Hiroshima because Truman was the one that gave the order.

namespace 13y ago

Interesting times. There is no doubt that the legal punches thrown at Android have been anti-competitive and kills innovation instead of what there were meant to protect. For example reportedly Microsoft earns more from Android than selling Windows phone: http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-is-making-2bn-a-year-on-android-licensing-five-times-more-than-windows-phone-7000022936/ http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-is-making-2bn-a-year-on-andro.... If the patents were that useful for innovation, Microsoft would have been ahead of Google by miles.

X-Istence 13y ago
Except that Microsoft innovated, got there first and clearly has something valuable if other companies are using it's IP (self evident since companies are paying them licensing fees).
- codygman 13y ago
  The reason for paying licensing fees doesn't have to be that Micro$oft has something valuable, it could very well be they are afraid of legal repercussions.
  - clarky07 13y ago
    If they weren't infringing, the companies wouldn't be paying. It's not like we are talking about some mom and pop that is going to go out of business from legal fees. We are talking major handset manufacturers.
    - AnthonyMouse 13y ago
      It's not about going out of business, it's about cost/benefit. What good does it do you to avoid paying a million dollars in license fees if it costs you two million dollars in lawyers fees to do it? (The answer is that it keeps you from being painted as a mark by other trolls. But it still doesn't change the math -- it costs more to fight than to pay.)
- 13y ago

millerm 13y ago

Seriously, a horribly biased "article". I don't prefer this style of journalism.

twentysix 13y ago

Slightly offtopic, but Article One recently launched a crowd-funding project[1] aimed at helping start ups affected by actual patent trolls. According to the project page, "Our goal is to launch and maintain a completely free, data-rich, up-to-date, member-supported database that small companies can use to help defend against patent trolls." They are starting with a patent owned by Treehouse Avatar Technologies regarding gaming avatars. Treehouse has been targeting indie game developers using US 8180858[2]. Eventually, they plan to build a prior art database targeting the most abused patents and provide small start-ups with free access. [1] http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/operation-ninja-s-t-a-r-help-fight-patent-trolls http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/operation-ninja-s-t-a-r-he... [2] http://google.com/patents/US8180858 http://google.com/patents/US8180858

deleted 13y ago

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bananacurve 13y ago

>Today, Rockstar employs once-proud Canadian engineers to work as high-tech ring-wraiths in service of its American trolling operation. At least they didn't oversell it.

throwawaykf03 13y ago

Saying "Apple-backed" (or "Apple and Microsoft owned" as past articles have) insinuate that those companies are pulling the strings, which is not necessarily true. Straight from the horse's mouth [1]: Given the amount they paid and given the on-going issues at least some of them have with both Google and the Android platform, many reports have talked about the consortium going on the attack or have assumed that it is the shareholders that have driven things. This is categorically not the case, Veschi says. “It was entirely my call based on the facts in front of me,” he states. “The shareholders got an email telling them what had happened after the suits were issued.” You might not believe him, but it's not necessarily that unbelievable. For instance, Intellectual Ventures is, in a way, "Google-backed", since Google invested in one of their "funds" (or whatever they call it). Yet IV turned around and sued Motorola two years after Google acquired it. 1. http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc-4977-9fa7-9f885d95ff91 http://www.iam-magazine.com/blog/detail.aspx?g=d258542c-dbfc...

kkowalczyk 13y ago
We don't need to insinuate anything. It's clear that both Microsoft and Apple are pulling the strings. They didn't collectively spend $4.5 billion to just have Rockstar do whatever they want. (Not that creating a patent troll under any scenario is morally defensible for Microsoft or Apple). The shell games provide them plausible deniability only to naive. They sued Android. Android is a big threat to both Microsoft and Apple. Coincidence? I don't think so.
- throwawaykf03 13y ago
  In case you didn't read the article I linked, the CEO of Rockstar created these licensing programs while they were still Nortel-owned and has been in negotiations for years before Rockstar was formed. This was a long time coming and all the potential infringers knew it, which was why the auction was in the billions of dollars. They sued Android. Android is a big threat to both Microsoft and Apple. Rockstar sued some Android phone makers because it infringes their patents and they don't have a license. Note that they didn't sue Sony, who makes Android phones, because Sony, being part of the consortium, has paid for those patents.

deleted 13y ago

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sethbannon 13y ago

Sadly I'm becoming more and more convinced that the only solution to the broken way patents work in this country is for things to get so bad, and these troll lawsuits to get so egregious, that Congress is forced to act and overhall the entire system.

allochthon 13y ago
Rockstar in my mind is symbolic of everything wrong in the tech industry these days. I love Apple products, but I love Apple just a little less for getting its hands dirty in this. Obviously there are other companies as well, but I'm not as attached to them. If this ends up speeding up patent reform, I guess it's worth the bitter pill. I'm tempted to switch to Android the next time I get a phone.
- psbp 13y ago
  This is the case that gets you pissed off at Apple's use of patent litigation?
  - alextingle 13y ago
    Even the most devoted fans must have their breaking points.
- guelo 13y ago
  Totally off topic but you just triggered a mini rant in me. Apple products are awful. Just today I was cursing Apple over the ridiculous "lightning" connector scandal. It's incomprehensible to me how Apple users keep taking the abuse to the point that they blame themselves for Apple's shenanigans. It's some kind of stockholm syndrome.
  - jpttsn 13y ago
    I'll bite. What's wrong with the connector?
    - 13y ago

liviu 13y ago

Google is now crying like a little kid after they tried unsuccessfully to buy Nortel patents... Pathetic.

beedogs 13y ago

Wow, the guy in the comments section of the article just nonstop trolling for Rockstar/Apple is unbelievable.

andy_ppp 13y ago

Simple solution, the law should be: A) only companies using patents directly can sue B) the maximum damages that can be awarded are 2x revenue related to the patents This means that companies actually using patents and making a business out of them can benefit and stops patent trolls. Am I crazy?

rednukleus 13y ago
What about patents that come out of universities? How do you determine the "revenue related to the patents"?
- salient 13y ago
  Universities have patents for the purpose of selling them, no? If a company is making something and wants to use it, then they buy the patent. No different from today in that case. The only difference is that trolls can't buy the same patents in order to sue others, like IV, Rockstar, and others are doing.
- andy_ppp 13y ago
  When has a university ever sued someone? Patents generally end up being bought by companies using them... Unless shenanigans are at play.
  - maxerickson 13y ago
    http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2009/10/university_of_wisconsin_settle.html http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2009/10/univers... (My impression is that UW is fairly extreme in this regard)
  - eatfish 13y ago
    Here's the first result from Google: http://www.cmu.edu/patent-lawsuit/ http://www.cmu.edu/patent-lawsuit/ CMU vs Marvell. Here's an article from Stanford law school: 'Are universities the new patent trolls?' http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=980776 http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=980776 Universities often (and unfairly IMHO) claim rights on graduate research precisely to monetize and act as patent gatekeepers.

sbuk 13y ago

Title is misleading. Rockstar isn't backed by a single entity. It's flame bait and many of you have taken it. Merry Christmas.

throwawaykf03 13y ago

If the Rockstar shareholders can be shown to have direct control over this, the DoJ and FTC may get involved. From this interview/fluff piece: http://www.ip-rockstar.com/Press_Releases/IAM%20Rockstar%20Article%20JulyAugust%202013.pdf http://www.ip-rockstar.com/Press_Releases/IAM%20Rockstar%20A... Commitments to the DoJ The sale of the Nortel patents closed on 29th July 2011, which also happens to be Veschi’s birthday. But it took another few months – until Spring 2012 – for the acquisition to receive clearance from the US Department of Justice (DoJ). Although this approval may have taken some time to obtain, the only commitment that Rockstar itself gave to the DoJ (and the Federal Trade Commission) was that it would operate autonomously. This, explains Veschi, was so that the shareholders “as operating companies cannot pick and choose who we will target”

DanBC 13y ago

Mangalyaan cost about $90m. How many robots could we have exploring the solar system if companies weren't throwing money into stupid patents? Like the Banana Equivalent Dose to explain regular radiation we need some easy to grasp comparison to explain just how much money is being wasted in this stupid system.

belgianguy 13y ago

Patent reform is highly needed or patents risk to become nothing more than minefields that already established players will use to stall - and ultimately defeat - newcomers and innovation in general, rather than dissemination of information and furthering of the sciences. Software projects (especially Open Source) projects that get popular don't stand a chance against these trolls. Don't think this is just something we need to read about. Action is required. At the moment Google/Android are being attacked by Rockstar Bidco, the Patent Troll King. It owns >6000 (ex-Nortel) patents, which (Microsoft, Apple, Sony, RIM and Ericsson bought jointly) they all stuffed into the Rockstar Bidco company that has no other function than suing possible 'infringers'. Given the vagueness and fondness of the USPTO to 'create intellectual property', this could be the perfect patent storm and Rockstar's boss said it himself: 'Pretty much anybody out there is infringing'. Meaning that whatever gets into the crosshairs of Rockstar, is on the hook for possibly millions of dollars. Who can defeat a titanic patent Frankenstein as big as Rockstar Bidco? It cannot be sued because it produces nothing (aka an Non Practicing Entity). But it has enormous wealthy backers, so it can sue everyone for everything and just sit it out. In fact, its owners all hold patents on the mobile industry, so the 'urgency' and 'usefulness' of Rockstar could be questioned, outside of being a 'bigger stick to hit Android with'. Google or the Android manufacturers have no option but to face the lawsuits. Google will have a hard time fighting them off, but I don't see the Android manufacturers survive in one piece. And that's exactly the idea: eradicate Android, make all software development that isn't owned (or graced) by the Rockstar owners a sticky patent mess, leading to a small set of 'friends of Rockstar' who can afford to develop software in peace. That's not only bad for Android or Google, that's a bad sign for software development in general. Because what if Rockstar Bidco all of the sudden 'feels' that the SteamBox could threaten the Xbox/Playstation duopoly? What if Rockstar Bidco thinks that Ubuntu Phone OS is something that is in infringing on their phone software patents? Who will stand up for them? Of course Rockstar Bidco claims that they are independent, but that was only believed by fools when they formed and only idiots believe it now after the other shoe has dropped (Apple, RIM and Microsoft all attacking Google/Android). And to the supporters of Rockstar, just to be clear: Google was only invited for a jointly bid on the Novell patents, never on the Nortel patents. As per the legal counsel of Google: Microsoft’s objective has been to keep from Google and Android device-makers any patents that might be used to defend against their attacks. A joint acquisition of the Novell patents that gave all parties a license would have eliminated any protection these patents could offer to Android against attacks from Microsoft and its bidding partners. Making sure that we would be unable to assert these patents to defend Android — and having us pay for the privilege — must have seemed like an ingenious strategy to them. In short: Microsoft told them it was going to shoot their dog but offered them to hold the gun when they did it. The fact that so many frivolous software patents exist is bad enough, the fact that 5 of the biggest tech companies conspired to create the ultimate patent troll is outright disgusting. Hate Android/Google all you like, but such constructions aren't healthy for a competitive market, they'll just swallow more and more patents, and attack more and more companies, until nobody bothers because of relentless lawsuits as soon as something somewhat popular is produced. No developer will sleep easy at night when this becomes the default, as an NPE is like a ghost, not subject to the same attacks as a regular business, which makes it so much harder to defeat. If software can only be developed by the graces or whims of companies like Rockstar Bidco, the software industry will bleed to death in an instant.