12 ms·

This is complicated. 1. rapgenius is probably the least spammy lyrics site on the internet, and definitely so amongst those on the first page of search results

by gmisra 13y ago

This is complicated. 1. rapgenius is probably the least spammy lyrics site on the internet, and definitely so amongst those on the first page of search results. As a consumer, I would not have a problem with Google, et al giving rapgenius results a special algorithmic bump to move them up. I also know that this is an opinion - it may be a popular opinion, but it is still inherently subjective. 2. If I was in rapgenius' shoes, I imagine gaming SEO would be a strategy to be seriously considered - one doesn't get into the music lyrics market without being aware of the current state of affairs. Barry Bonds believed he was the best hitter of his era, and if McGwire and Sosa were going to get credit for breaking the home run record while taking steroids, then damnit he was going to take steroids and hit 70 bombs. IMO, this is not a morality play. 3. But I do not care for the public personae of the rapgenius founders. They come off as juvenile and occasionally offensive, and I think they are bad representatives for consumer internet start-ups. I'm pretty sure this is a common opinion on HN, but I am not sure how much it should color our judgment of their actions. As they say, the game is the game.

jlebron2 13y ago
I have to agree that rapgenius has a great product but their "juvenile and occasionally offensive" demeanor tends to overshadow this. Would love to see them turn their image around but I'm not sure how likely that is. I've always wondered if that is a front they put on to relate to their user base. But then again I love rapgenius and I don't see it as being effective at all. [EDIT] grammar
- victorhooi 13y ago
  I suspect it is a front. I don't know much about them, but I did see this video from earlier this year, where they don't seem to be "in character": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpvrWdfEUHg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpvrWdfEUHg You compare that to some of their others, and you get the impression they're smart (if a little weird).
- yogo 13y ago
  It definitely comes off as a front. That's ironic because a lot of rap/hip hop is all about "I'm the real thing with the money, cars, women, etc. and the others are fake" lol.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
davemel37 13y ago
1. If Google would penalize their own sites for link schemes (i.e. Chrome) done by third party agencies, certainly they should for Rap Genius. This isn't about whats the best site, this is about maintaining credibility in their index. The moment Google plays favorites manually is the moment I switch to another search engine. 2. Gaming SEO is attractive to almost everybody. Google needs to make it so painful to get caught, that people won't bother risking it in the future. The way I see it is...even if Googles algorithms havent caught up just yet to surface the best quality content, they will eventually, why not speed up the process of meeting them in the middle and focus on legit link acquisition and traffic acquisition strategies... 3. I have no opinions about Rap Genius or their founders, I think their actions deserve a massive penalty...let them run ppc for those long tail lyric lines, I doubt those clicks cost more than a nickel. Let them clean up their act, and go through the channels to request a reinclusion in the index. The game is the game is a poor excuse. give me $15mm and a site like Rap Genius and I'll get it outranking everybody in the space in 9 months, with only legit strategies.
- gmisra 13y ago
  > The moment Google plays favorites manually is the moment I switch to another search engine. If you believe this doesn't already happen, then you and I must be using different internets. Simply by being selective in which aspects of SEO gaming they chose to address, in what order, and to what extent, they are making editorial decisions. If you're working in an industry where search results are already dominated by low-level SEO manipulation (say, maybe, music lyrics?), are you expected to stand by and let Google be the arbiter of if and when that issue is addressed? > why not speed up the process of meeting them in the middle and focus on legit link acquisition and traffic acquisition strategies... My guess is that will be the very likely outcome of this whole brouhaha. It would also not come as a surprise to me if this was the goal all along - getting Matt Cutts' attention is hard, until you're doing something wrong. You seem to know a lot about SEO, definitely more than me. But it feels like you are expressing a criticism that presumes that this behavior has been happening, and has been tolerated, for some time.
  - davemel37 13y ago
seiji 13y ago
the least spammy lyrics site on the internet Is songmeanings spammy at all? They didn't even have ads for the longest time, and they don't do crappy a-dozen-pop-unders like other sites these days.
- girvo 13y ago
  I loved songmeanings back in the day. A lot of cool insider info on bands I liked, explaining stuff in a way line-by-line annotation doesn't, but they never took advantage of that and stagnated IMO.
  - songmeanings 13y ago
    How would you improve SongMeanings? What would make you visit again? Would love, and appreciate, the feedback.
rmrfrmrf 13y ago
My problem is when companies think that "do everything we can for <metric> while staying just inside (and maybe a little outside) the boundaries we're given" and "do what we can for <metric> in line with our business values" are the same thing. A company that I would support would look at the link tactic and say, "damn, that's anti-consumer, anti-business, and pretty shady all around. Let's build our site traffic by making our content better and working with Google to figure out ways to improve our site's searchability."
newnewnew 13y ago
I can't tell if Hacker News hates African-American culture, or just white boys who take part in it. If they were annotating Opera Librettas and spoke in Victorian English, I'm sure HN would love them. It's not like they are complete posers. They got investment from Nas.
- look_lookatme 13y ago
  I don't particularly care about librettas or victorian english, but the shit these guys say is pretty absurd. In any case this weekend we are going to have them play some heads-up poker, a set of tennis, a drinking contest - a winner gwan emerge (Ilan) and you girls gonna see wassup. If you wanna cover these "World's Sexiest Startup Man" events you are welcome - we will get you soused up you gonna feel nice. Let me cut to the chase: Ilan's sexy is $15M Zach's is $10M YOU FEEL ME? You know what I'm saying now? You feel me.. - http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-incites-unsolicited-startup-beef-over-sexies-1463237777 http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-incites-unsolicited-s...
  - newnewnew 13y ago
    Valleywag is east coast hater bullshit. It's a badge of honor to get attacked by Valleywag[1] [1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/anti-foreigner-vc-also-supports-hiring-discrimination-1215372055 http://valleywag.gawker.com/anti-foreigner-vc-also-supports-...
    - look_lookatme 13y ago
      What does that have to do with the way these guys act?
      - nswanberg 13y ago
        What does an article entitled "Anti-Foreigner VC Also Supports Hiring Discrimination" have to do with a story about a company where one of the founders is named "Mahbod Moghadam" and appears to be a first-generation Iranian-American? If your instinct is to cite that website, probably it is better to question whether the point you are trying to make is thoughtful or reflexive.
001sky 13y ago
This is complicated. 1. rapgenius is probably the least ... 2. If... 3. But... As they say... = So, its not that complicated. I think you got the main ponts.
nemothekid 13y ago
> juvenile and occasionally offensive I agree. I too, am occasionally perturbed when these "Silicon Valley" types show up to meeting without a suit and tie and wearing their "hipster" beards.
- enraged_camel 13y ago
  I think parent may be referring to the casual rape jokes the RG guys occasionally make.
mcgwiz 13y ago
What do find "juvenile" or "offensive" about them? The rap subject matter they cater to? I've always found them reasonably professional, particularly their evidence-driven handling of the Heroku load distribution debacle. http://news.rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-lyrics http://news.rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-l...
- smackfu 13y ago
  Did you see the original email that prompted this whole thing? It sounds like a frat boy. http://jmarbach.com/rapgenius-growth-hack-exposed http://jmarbach.com/rapgenius-growth-hack-exposed
  - mcgwiz 13y ago
    Wow, haven't seen that. Agree it appears unprofessional and frat-ish. On the other hand, he may have found this colloquial tone is more effective than a professional one given the specific audience they are communicating with (people that publish youth- and music-oriented blogs). I feel that being able to communicate in a traditionally-professional manner increases overall chance of success. But this is only because it is generally accepted that such a tone can signal trustworthiness. So even more important is the ability to communicate trustworthiness, whatever that may precisely mean, and the exact parameters of this vary by correspondents. If the people you truly value are skeptical of symbols of tradition and establishment, then a good marketing practice would be to adopt an anti-establishment brand. So while I'm aware of tone, I try to refrain from overreacting to it, and try to give the content/actions a fair shake. All that said, in this particular case of collusive link building, I do find him shady and abusive/disrespectful toward the internet community.
- subsection1h 13y ago
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NAzQPll7Lo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NAzQPll7Lo

by gmisra 13y ago

jlebron2 13y ago

I have to agree that rapgenius has a great product but their "juvenile and occasionally offensive" demeanor tends to overshadow this. Would love to see them turn their image around but I'm not sure how likely that is. I've always wondered if that is a front they put on to relate to their user base. But then again I love rapgenius and I don't see it as being effective at all. [EDIT] grammar

victorhooi 13y ago
I suspect it is a front. I don't know much about them, but I did see this video from earlier this year, where they don't seem to be "in character": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpvrWdfEUHg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpvrWdfEUHg You compare that to some of their others, and you get the impression they're smart (if a little weird).
yogo 13y ago
It definitely comes off as a front. That's ironic because a lot of rap/hip hop is all about "I'm the real thing with the money, cars, women, etc. and the others are fake" lol.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

davemel37 13y ago

1. If Google would penalize their own sites for link schemes (i.e. Chrome) done by third party agencies, certainly they should for Rap Genius. This isn't about whats the best site, this is about maintaining credibility in their index. The moment Google plays favorites manually is the moment I switch to another search engine. 2. Gaming SEO is attractive to almost everybody. Google needs to make it so painful to get caught, that people won't bother risking it in the future. The way I see it is...even if Googles algorithms havent caught up just yet to surface the best quality content, they will eventually, why not speed up the process of meeting them in the middle and focus on legit link acquisition and traffic acquisition strategies... 3. I have no opinions about Rap Genius or their founders, I think their actions deserve a massive penalty...let them run ppc for those long tail lyric lines, I doubt those clicks cost more than a nickel. Let them clean up their act, and go through the channels to request a reinclusion in the index. The game is the game is a poor excuse. give me $15mm and a site like Rap Genius and I'll get it outranking everybody in the space in 9 months, with only legit strategies.

gmisra 13y ago
> The moment Google plays favorites manually is the moment I switch to another search engine. If you believe this doesn't already happen, then you and I must be using different internets. Simply by being selective in which aspects of SEO gaming they chose to address, in what order, and to what extent, they are making editorial decisions. If you're working in an industry where search results are already dominated by low-level SEO manipulation (say, maybe, music lyrics?), are you expected to stand by and let Google be the arbiter of if and when that issue is addressed? > why not speed up the process of meeting them in the middle and focus on legit link acquisition and traffic acquisition strategies... My guess is that will be the very likely outcome of this whole brouhaha. It would also not come as a surprise to me if this was the goal all along - getting Matt Cutts' attention is hard, until you're doing something wrong. You seem to know a lot about SEO, definitely more than me. But it feels like you are expressing a criticism that presumes that this behavior has been happening, and has been tolerated, for some time.
- davemel37 13y ago

seiji 13y ago

the least spammy lyrics site on the internet Is songmeanings spammy at all? They didn't even have ads for the longest time, and they don't do crappy a-dozen-pop-unders like other sites these days.

girvo 13y ago
I loved songmeanings back in the day. A lot of cool insider info on bands I liked, explaining stuff in a way line-by-line annotation doesn't, but they never took advantage of that and stagnated IMO.
- songmeanings 13y ago
  How would you improve SongMeanings? What would make you visit again? Would love, and appreciate, the feedback.

rmrfrmrf 13y ago

My problem is when companies think that "do everything we can for <metric> while staying just inside (and maybe a little outside) the boundaries we're given" and "do what we can for <metric> in line with our business values" are the same thing. A company that I would support would look at the link tactic and say, "damn, that's anti-consumer, anti-business, and pretty shady all around. Let's build our site traffic by making our content better and working with Google to figure out ways to improve our site's searchability."

newnewnew 13y ago

I can't tell if Hacker News hates African-American culture, or just white boys who take part in it. If they were annotating Opera Librettas and spoke in Victorian English, I'm sure HN would love them. It's not like they are complete posers. They got investment from Nas.

look_lookatme 13y ago
I don't particularly care about librettas or victorian english, but the shit these guys say is pretty absurd. In any case this weekend we are going to have them play some heads-up poker, a set of tennis, a drinking contest - a winner gwan emerge (Ilan) and you girls gonna see wassup. If you wanna cover these "World's Sexiest Startup Man" events you are welcome - we will get you soused up you gonna feel nice. Let me cut to the chase: Ilan's sexy is $15M Zach's is $10M YOU FEEL ME? You know what I'm saying now? You feel me.. - http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-incites-unsolicited-startup-beef-over-sexies-1463237777 http://valleywag.gawker.com/rap-genius-incites-unsolicited-s...
- newnewnew 13y ago
  Valleywag is east coast hater bullshit. It's a badge of honor to get attacked by Valleywag[1] [1] http://valleywag.gawker.com/anti-foreigner-vc-also-supports-hiring-discrimination-1215372055 http://valleywag.gawker.com/anti-foreigner-vc-also-supports-...
  - look_lookatme 13y ago
    What does that have to do with the way these guys act?
    - nswanberg 13y ago
      What does an article entitled "Anti-Foreigner VC Also Supports Hiring Discrimination" have to do with a story about a company where one of the founders is named "Mahbod Moghadam" and appears to be a first-generation Iranian-American? If your instinct is to cite that website, probably it is better to question whether the point you are trying to make is thoughtful or reflexive.

001sky 13y ago

This is complicated. 1. rapgenius is probably the least ... 2. If... 3. But... As they say... = So, its not that complicated. I think you got the main ponts.

nemothekid 13y ago

> juvenile and occasionally offensive I agree. I too, am occasionally perturbed when these "Silicon Valley" types show up to meeting without a suit and tie and wearing their "hipster" beards.

enraged_camel 13y ago
I think parent may be referring to the casual rape jokes the RG guys occasionally make.

mcgwiz 13y ago

What do find "juvenile" or "offensive" about them? The rap subject matter they cater to? I've always found them reasonably professional, particularly their evidence-driven handling of the Heroku load distribution debacle. http://news.rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-lyrics http://news.rapgenius.com/James-somers-herokus-ugly-secret-l...

smackfu 13y ago
Did you see the original email that prompted this whole thing? It sounds like a frat boy. http://jmarbach.com/rapgenius-growth-hack-exposed http://jmarbach.com/rapgenius-growth-hack-exposed
- mcgwiz 13y ago
  Wow, haven't seen that. Agree it appears unprofessional and frat-ish. On the other hand, he may have found this colloquial tone is more effective than a professional one given the specific audience they are communicating with (people that publish youth- and music-oriented blogs). I feel that being able to communicate in a traditionally-professional manner increases overall chance of success. But this is only because it is generally accepted that such a tone can signal trustworthiness. So even more important is the ability to communicate trustworthiness, whatever that may precisely mean, and the exact parameters of this vary by correspondents. If the people you truly value are skeptical of symbols of tradition and establishment, then a good marketing practice would be to adopt an anti-establishment brand. So while I'm aware of tone, I try to refrain from overreacting to it, and try to give the content/actions a fair shake. All that said, in this particular case of collusive link building, I do find him shady and abusive/disrespectful toward the internet community.
subsection1h 13y ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NAzQPll7Lo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NAzQPll7Lo