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That's true. But why make it worse by choosing a bad language. Surely you have good practice and a language that makes it easier.

by UK-AL 13y ago

ThomPete 13y ago
You wanna know why PHP is so popular and why many people chooses it? Because it's so easy to get started using. Compare that to almost any other language out there that is a nightmare to set up. At the end of the day the code if it works it works and PHP just simply works. Not for everything but for most things.
- shekmalhen 13y ago
  The same thing could have been said about visual basic... one of the worse language ever made.
  - ThomPete 13y ago
    Yup! Yet it helped millions achieve their goals. :)
    - eropple 13y ago
      By back-loading the development process, making it more difficult to get shit done later when your ability to avoid institutional inertia and code complexity has significantly decreased. That's not a good thing.
- mekoka 13y ago
  Yes PHP is deceptive in that it saves you about 2 hours of your life right at the setup, compared to other languages. You end up paying them in spades over the next 5 years you'll be using it. I should know.
- usamec 13y ago
  I think that setting up apache+php is much harder than copy&pasting few basic lines of flask code a running simple python program.
  - ThomPete 13y ago
    What have Mamp done? Furthermore most web hotels support PHP.
- larrys 13y ago
  Agree. Reminds me of some of my friends who will obsess over the specs on a digital camera (or the power of a particular model of PC or Mac) and completely ignore setting up and composing a good photo. Wanna be purists I guess. Many years ago I put together some shell scripts using awk, sed and an early shell. The were used to do an estimating system in the business that I was involved in at the time. They were crude and the code was really bad and I had at the time really little clue on how to do things the correct way. Had I had to learn c to do the same thing (which I did somewhat a bit later) I would have never ended up with anything at all. Professionals laughed but the people who bought the business ended up using the system that I wrote for about 4 or 5 years until they found something to replace it. It got the job done. Under the hood what was going on (in this particular case I have to stress as this was pre-net and only used internally) wasn't really a factor.
- evilduck 13y ago
  Setting up Apache to serve raw Ruby .erbs or .rhtmls like you'd serve .php files out of a folder is nearly identical in length and difficulty of steps if you're configuring it yourself: http://iamjamesblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/configure-apache-to-serve-any-ruby-erb-file-like-a-mod_ruby-or-mod_erb/ http://iamjamesblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/configure-apach... Nobody does it because there's just no demand for two crappy default hosting configurations (this isn't even a criticism about PHP the language, it's just a bad model to use for hosting web applications).
  - ThomPete 13y ago
    Thats not what i meant but fair enough I could have been more clear. I was talking about setting up as in getting started. Download MAMP or create a folder with your web host. That's it you are ready to create a web application. Now find me one other system that makes it just as easy.
    - evilduck 13y ago
      http://railsinstaller.org http://railsinstaller.org
- krapp 13y ago
  If I didn't use PHP, I would have to explain to my clients who just want a simple website for business x why it's written in a language they've never heard of, that they can't find cheap maintainers for, and can't host just anywhere they like. PHP has the advantage of being able to create "black box" solutions for non-technical clients because the hosting environment is ubiquitous and you can just throw a rock out of your window and hit a Wordpress developer, and 9 times out of ten all you need to deploy with is FTP.

That's true. But why make it worse by choosing a bad language. Surely you have good practice and a language that makes it easier.

by UK-AL 13y ago

That's true. But why make it worse by choosing a bad language. Surely you have good practice and a language that makes it easier.

ThomPete 13y ago

You wanna know why PHP is so popular and why many people chooses it? Because it's so easy to get started using. Compare that to almost any other language out there that is a nightmare to set up. At the end of the day the code if it works it works and PHP just simply works. Not for everything but for most things.

shekmalhen 13y ago
The same thing could have been said about visual basic... one of the worse language ever made.
- ThomPete 13y ago
  Yup! Yet it helped millions achieve their goals. :)
  - eropple 13y ago
    By back-loading the development process, making it more difficult to get shit done later when your ability to avoid institutional inertia and code complexity has significantly decreased. That's not a good thing.
mekoka 13y ago
Yes PHP is deceptive in that it saves you about 2 hours of your life right at the setup, compared to other languages. You end up paying them in spades over the next 5 years you'll be using it. I should know.
usamec 13y ago
I think that setting up apache+php is much harder than copy&pasting few basic lines of flask code a running simple python program.
- ThomPete 13y ago
  What have Mamp done? Furthermore most web hotels support PHP.
larrys 13y ago
Agree. Reminds me of some of my friends who will obsess over the specs on a digital camera (or the power of a particular model of PC or Mac) and completely ignore setting up and composing a good photo. Wanna be purists I guess. Many years ago I put together some shell scripts using awk, sed and an early shell. The were used to do an estimating system in the business that I was involved in at the time. They were crude and the code was really bad and I had at the time really little clue on how to do things the correct way. Had I had to learn c to do the same thing (which I did somewhat a bit later) I would have never ended up with anything at all. Professionals laughed but the people who bought the business ended up using the system that I wrote for about 4 or 5 years until they found something to replace it. It got the job done. Under the hood what was going on (in this particular case I have to stress as this was pre-net and only used internally) wasn't really a factor.
evilduck 13y ago
Setting up Apache to serve raw Ruby .erbs or .rhtmls like you'd serve .php files out of a folder is nearly identical in length and difficulty of steps if you're configuring it yourself: http://iamjamesblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/configure-apache-to-serve-any-ruby-erb-file-like-a-mod_ruby-or-mod_erb/ http://iamjamesblog.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/configure-apach... Nobody does it because there's just no demand for two crappy default hosting configurations (this isn't even a criticism about PHP the language, it's just a bad model to use for hosting web applications).
- ThomPete 13y ago
  Thats not what i meant but fair enough I could have been more clear. I was talking about setting up as in getting started. Download MAMP or create a folder with your web host. That's it you are ready to create a web application. Now find me one other system that makes it just as easy.
  - evilduck 13y ago
    http://railsinstaller.org http://railsinstaller.org
krapp 13y ago
If I didn't use PHP, I would have to explain to my clients who just want a simple website for business x why it's written in a language they've never heard of, that they can't find cheap maintainers for, and can't host just anywhere they like. PHP has the advantage of being able to create "black box" solutions for non-technical clients because the hosting environment is ubiquitous and you can just throw a rock out of your window and hit a Wordpress developer, and 9 times out of ten all you need to deploy with is FTP.