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>> "You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom." Honestly I'd be more happy with the t

>> "You're basically choosing between the US government or a combination of Verizon, AT&T, Sprint, and Deutsche Telekom." Honestly I'd be more happy with the telecom companies doing it. They can do much less harm with any data they get.

teddyh 13y ago
And when the companies then give their data to the government? The only solution is for the data never to exist at all.
phillmv 13y ago
I'd prefer it if no one did it. I can imagine a future where your credit rating is influenced by your Facebook profile and it's not a fun one.
- deleted 13y ago
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- malandrew 13y ago
  Such a future would be yet another example of the institutionalization of racism just like the war on drugs. Imagine the day when you have to think to yourself "will friending this person reduce my credit rating?"
ptaffs 13y ago
oh agreed -- less harm. And when the government do it, we the people pay tax to enable it. US Taxpayers are paying for these buildings, mega-data centers, and contractors.
jonsleet 13y ago
No, a corporation will do anything to increase its profits - or more accurately, dominance of its market. Anyone that can pay will get. With an added bonus of obscurity. As an aside, when you think of corporations try not to think about the imagery they bathe you in. Think of a serial killer sidling up next to you all smiles and compliments. That would be more accurate.
- CWuestefeld 13y ago
  I'm assuming that you work for a corporation. That corporation is made up of you, and a heap of other folks quite similar to you. It's true that lots of corporations do unethical things, but you also should keep in mind that at its heart, it's people like you and I that are doing it. They respond to incentives like the rest of us, they (mostly) have a conscience, and generally try to do the right thing. They're not always successful, but I don't think that your caricature is generally accurate.
  - jonsleet 13y ago
    No, I do not. I did work for several in the past and only one of those would I say operated "with conscience". They were overcome - overwhelmed by more "sinister" competition (of some reknown, wildly successful still). You need to see their operations as algorithms, and put numbers to actions. Ethical behavior often has a cost - and the counter unethical behavior can yield great gains - exposure may have a risk of a cost, but that may be mitigated with proxy agents, or marketing and relationship management. Someone has this all worked out, monte carloed through the gamut, including things that you might consider to be greatly evil.
enumBoss 13y ago
And you usually have a choice with corporations. You can see in ToS how they plan to use your data and they often let you opt out. You don't get that with government agencies. Often you don't even know your data is taken since they're monitoring as much as they can see.

teddyh 13y ago

And when the companies then give their data to the government? The only solution is for the data never to exist at all.

phillmv 13y ago

I'd prefer it if no one did it. I can imagine a future where your credit rating is influenced by your Facebook profile and it's not a fun one.

deleted 13y ago
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malandrew 13y ago
Such a future would be yet another example of the institutionalization of racism just like the war on drugs. Imagine the day when you have to think to yourself "will friending this person reduce my credit rating?"

ptaffs 13y ago

oh agreed -- less harm. And when the government do it, we the people pay tax to enable it. US Taxpayers are paying for these buildings, mega-data centers, and contractors.

jonsleet 13y ago

No, a corporation will do anything to increase its profits - or more accurately, dominance of its market. Anyone that can pay will get. With an added bonus of obscurity. As an aside, when you think of corporations try not to think about the imagery they bathe you in. Think of a serial killer sidling up next to you all smiles and compliments. That would be more accurate.

CWuestefeld 13y ago
I'm assuming that you work for a corporation. That corporation is made up of you, and a heap of other folks quite similar to you. It's true that lots of corporations do unethical things, but you also should keep in mind that at its heart, it's people like you and I that are doing it. They respond to incentives like the rest of us, they (mostly) have a conscience, and generally try to do the right thing. They're not always successful, but I don't think that your caricature is generally accurate.
- jonsleet 13y ago
  No, I do not. I did work for several in the past and only one of those would I say operated "with conscience". They were overcome - overwhelmed by more "sinister" competition (of some reknown, wildly successful still). You need to see their operations as algorithms, and put numbers to actions. Ethical behavior often has a cost - and the counter unethical behavior can yield great gains - exposure may have a risk of a cost, but that may be mitigated with proxy agents, or marketing and relationship management. Someone has this all worked out, monte carloed through the gamut, including things that you might consider to be greatly evil.

enumBoss 13y ago

And you usually have a choice with corporations. You can see in ToS how they plan to use your data and they often let you opt out. You don't get that with government agencies. Often you don't even know your data is taken since they're monitoring as much as they can see.