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He actually mentioned in the article that he grew up "middle class". I am aware that middle class in India may be different than in the US, but it is clear tha

He actually mentioned in the article that he grew up "middle class". I am aware that middle class in India may be different than in the US, but it is clear that he was never poor - going to bed hungry etc.

yummyfajitas 13y ago
"Middle class" in India does not mean what you seem to think. The vast majority of middle class Indians are poorer than most Americans living in poverty. Read my link - 95% of Indians are poorer than the bottom 5% of Americans. Unless the author defines "middle class" as "top 2%", the fact that he grew up "middle class" is meaningless when comparing his lifestyle to an American one. A stat to illustrate the point - 1.8% of India (circa 2009) owns a car, likely one that would be too dangerous to sell in the US. For comparison, 25% of American households below the poverty line own 2 cars and 75% own one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_p... http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf The bottom 50% of America you described, or even the bottom 5%, also does not go to bed hungry.
- guard-of-terra 13y ago
  "Poorer" doesn't mean much. First of all, you should factor in purchasing power; second, constant expenses which are the killer. In most countries, especially poorer ones, you don't have to own a car to be in the middle class. Neither you have to pay for gas, car itself and parking/garage. You can realistically move by foot and/or mass transit. Disclaimer: I think I'm in top 5% in my country, probably earn more than USA median and I never had a car.
  - yummyfajitas 13y ago
    Clearly you still haven't read the link I provided, which provides numbers after adjusting for purchasing power. I'd provide you with more statistics showing how wealthy poor Americans are (http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf), but clearly you aren't going to read any numbers. So instead, go watch about 4 minutes of Delhi Belly (good movie, BTW, vastly better than typical Bollywood crap) which always confuses first world types: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrJS6R-FT-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrJS6R-FT-o (Sorry, couldn't find the whole scene in one video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dkCVXcAVg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dkCVXcAVg That's life for middle class professionals. (Admittedly, a group of non-misfits would have filled the buckets.)
    - guard-of-terra 13y ago
      What's so terribly wrong about those scenes? After applying cinema discount. They don't drink your juice in the USA? I will pick middle-class Indian over poor American every day, because: you won't get shot, you won't land in prison, you won't have to work three jobs for funny money, you'll have a real family and your children won't do drugs. Instead you'll be raking in some respect.
      - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
        I live in Iowa; those things you mention are the comic-book version of America. Nobody is shooting anybody around here; only college students end up in jail, overnight, when they leave the bars at 2AM and wander in the streets and might hurt themselves.
        cpher 13y ago
        I lived in rural Iowa for 4 years and currently live in inner-city southside Chicago. The contrast could not be more dramatic. It's not "comic-book" to describe certain neighborhoods like this. However, Iowans (and other midwesterners) are extremely sheltered from the lethal combination of drugs, no family structure, poor schools, etc.
        JoeAltmaier 13y ago
        Sheltered = have a stable community and a strong work ethic? To say we're 'sheltered' is similar to, say, the way a lighthouse is 'sheltered' by being built of the right stuff and having a strong foundation.
        guard-of-terra 13y ago
        Comic book or statistics? I guess that mainland states' countryside is one thing and urban poverty in large cities is another thing. One more reason to take income rankings with a grain of salt. As a preedictor of lifestyle.
- HarryHirsch 13y ago
  You are conflating possessions with a predictable stream of income, and you shouldn't really be doing this.
  - yummyfajitas 13y ago
    The purpose of income is to buy goods and services. The world bank data I cite gives you data on income, the data on goods illustrates the resulting difference in goods. If you have any data at all suggesting the Indian middle class is remotely as wealthy as even poor Americans, feel free to cite it.
kamaal 13y ago
>>I am aware that middle class in India may be different than in the US As an Indian I can tell you, To give you a true perspective almost every one rich in India apart from Ambanis and Tata(Kind of Rockfellers and Rothschilds of India) think they are from the middle class. The super poor in India die out of hunger. Farmers commit suicide day in and out. The lower middle class barely gets any education and nearly die fighting for opportunity all their lives. The middle class is a little above that. I can tell you stories of how difficult and crappy my child hood and teenage here was. And we were considered middle class. The fact that you can start a company in India, and do it relatively comfortably to have your parents support your through, pay your college fees, have a car, and give you comfortable cozy home to live means you are easily among the rich. In India middle class is an heavily overloaded terminology.
- gaius 13y ago
  There is the same perception issue here in England. Hugh Muir writing in the Guardian (probably the second most popular left-wing paper) defines "middle class" to mean "private education" which is about 7% of the population. Presumably he considers himself to be "working class"...

yummyfajitas 13y ago

"Middle class" in India does not mean what you seem to think. The vast majority of middle class Indians are poorer than most Americans living in poverty. Read my link - 95% of Indians are poorer than the bottom 5% of Americans. Unless the author defines "middle class" as "top 2%", the fact that he grew up "middle class" is meaningless when comparing his lifestyle to an American one. A stat to illustrate the point - 1.8% of India (circa 2009) owns a car, likely one that would be too dangerous to sell in the US. For comparison, 25% of American households below the poverty line own 2 cars and 75% own one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_p... http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf The bottom 50% of America you described, or even the bottom 5%, also does not go to bed hungry.

guard-of-terra 13y ago
"Poorer" doesn't mean much. First of all, you should factor in purchasing power; second, constant expenses which are the killer. In most countries, especially poorer ones, you don't have to own a car to be in the middle class. Neither you have to pay for gas, car itself and parking/garage. You can realistically move by foot and/or mass transit. Disclaimer: I think I'm in top 5% in my country, probably earn more than USA median and I never had a car.
- yummyfajitas 13y ago
  Clearly you still haven't read the link I provided, which provides numbers after adjusting for purchasing power. I'd provide you with more statistics showing how wealthy poor Americans are (http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf), but clearly you aren't going to read any numbers. So instead, go watch about 4 minutes of Delhi Belly (good movie, BTW, vastly better than typical Bollywood crap) which always confuses first world types: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrJS6R-FT-o http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrJS6R-FT-o (Sorry, couldn't find the whole scene in one video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dkCVXcAVg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3dkCVXcAVg That's life for middle class professionals. (Admittedly, a group of non-misfits would have filled the buckets.)
  - guard-of-terra 13y ago
    What's so terribly wrong about those scenes? After applying cinema discount. They don't drink your juice in the USA? I will pick middle-class Indian over poor American every day, because: you won't get shot, you won't land in prison, you won't have to work three jobs for funny money, you'll have a real family and your children won't do drugs. Instead you'll be raking in some respect.
    - JoeAltmaier 13y ago
      I live in Iowa; those things you mention are the comic-book version of America. Nobody is shooting anybody around here; only college students end up in jail, overnight, when they leave the bars at 2AM and wander in the streets and might hurt themselves.
      - cpher 13y ago
        I lived in rural Iowa for 4 years and currently live in inner-city southside Chicago. The contrast could not be more dramatic. It's not "comic-book" to describe certain neighborhoods like this. However, Iowans (and other midwesterners) are extremely sheltered from the lethal combination of drugs, no family structure, poor schools, etc.
        JoeAltmaier 13y ago
        Sheltered = have a stable community and a strong work ethic? To say we're 'sheltered' is similar to, say, the way a lighthouse is 'sheltered' by being built of the right stuff and having a strong foundation.
      - guard-of-terra 13y ago
        Comic book or statistics? I guess that mainland states' countryside is one thing and urban poverty in large cities is another thing. One more reason to take income rankings with a grain of salt. As a preedictor of lifestyle.
HarryHirsch 13y ago
You are conflating possessions with a predictable stream of income, and you shouldn't really be doing this.
- yummyfajitas 13y ago
  The purpose of income is to buy goods and services. The world bank data I cite gives you data on income, the data on goods illustrates the resulting difference in goods. If you have any data at all suggesting the Indian middle class is remotely as wealthy as even poor Americans, feel free to cite it.

kamaal 13y ago

>>I am aware that middle class in India may be different than in the US As an Indian I can tell you, To give you a true perspective almost every one rich in India apart from Ambanis and Tata(Kind of Rockfellers and Rothschilds of India) think they are from the middle class. The super poor in India die out of hunger. Farmers commit suicide day in and out. The lower middle class barely gets any education and nearly die fighting for opportunity all their lives. The middle class is a little above that. I can tell you stories of how difficult and crappy my child hood and teenage here was. And we were considered middle class. The fact that you can start a company in India, and do it relatively comfortably to have your parents support your through, pay your college fees, have a car, and give you comfortable cozy home to live means you are easily among the rich. In India middle class is an heavily overloaded terminology.

gaius 13y ago
There is the same perception issue here in England. Hugh Muir writing in the Guardian (probably the second most popular left-wing paper) defines "middle class" to mean "private education" which is about 7% of the population. Presumably he considers himself to be "working class"...